this is not good stuff
Koth Product (former pro viaduct)
posted in
Map Discussion
no matter how hard u push this name down my throat im gonna call it viaduct
no matter how hard u push this name down my throat im gonna call it viaduct
quequenThe other download link dont work :/
thanks for pointing that out. tf2maps.net recently lost a large chunk of their downloads by accident. will be updating that
[quote=quequen]The other download link dont work :/[/quote]
thanks for pointing that out. tf2maps.net recently lost a large chunk of their downloads by accident. will be updating that
thanks for pointing that out. tf2maps.net recently lost a large chunk of their downloads by accident. will be updating that
Just two minor things that bugged me
Why can you stand both on top of these windows (Prop is solid) as well as on the little ledge?:
(There are also several other windows on the map. How should we know which ones we can stand on and which ones we can't?)
http://i.imgur.com/g93zW37.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/b0YfeYb.jpg
This feels incredibly unsmooth to walk into:
Just two minor things that bugged me
Why can you stand both on top of these windows (Prop is solid) as well as on the little ledge?:
(There are also several other windows on the map. How should we know which ones we can stand on and which ones we can't?)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/g93zW37.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/b0YfeYb.jpg[/img]
This feels incredibly unsmooth to walk into:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NiQcSLO.jpg[/img]
Why can you stand both on top of these windows (Prop is solid) as well as on the little ledge?:
(There are also several other windows on the map. How should we know which ones we can stand on and which ones we can't?)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/g93zW37.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/b0YfeYb.jpg[/img]
This feels incredibly unsmooth to walk into:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NiQcSLO.jpg[/img]
Hey Fubar, I don't know if you still visit here (and if he doesn't, anyone on his friends list who sees this and wants to let him know this would be appreciated greatly), but I'd like to very politely request a small (but important unless Valve fixes it themselves) change made to Product whenever you can.
Basically, Valve coded how the Pomson & Wrap Assassin projectiles work differently than every other projectile in the game. Other projectiles check collision by checking individual brushes, however these 2 weapons check collision by seeing if they intersect with a bounding box.
The problem here is that the connector on Product uses func_lod in such a way where these 2 weapon's projectiles always intersect the bounding box of the func_lod when you shoot towards the connector. If you try to shoot either weapon into/out of connector (or a small area around the entrances to connector) the projectiles disappear (in the case of the Wrap bauble it explodes).
This isn't a terribly important issue to fix right away (e: altho having an rc9 before product is played in UGC in 2 weeks would be lit), however it limits the viability of these 2 weapons in these specific areas (mainly in Highlander/pubs), and should Valve add more projectiles like this in the future would affect them too.
Thanks.
Hey Fubar, I don't know if you still visit here (and if he doesn't, anyone on his friends list who sees this and wants to let him know this would be appreciated greatly), but I'd like to very politely request a small (but important unless Valve fixes it themselves) change made to Product whenever you can.
Basically, Valve coded how the Pomson & Wrap Assassin projectiles work differently than every other projectile in the game. Other projectiles check collision by checking individual brushes, however these 2 weapons check collision by seeing if they intersect with a bounding box.
The problem here is that the connector on Product uses func_lod in such a way where these 2 weapon's projectiles always intersect the bounding box of the func_lod when you shoot towards the connector. If you try to shoot either weapon into/out of connector (or a small area around the entrances to connector) the projectiles disappear (in the case of the Wrap bauble it explodes).
This isn't a terribly important issue to fix right away (e: altho having an rc9 before product is played in UGC in 2 weeks would be lit), however it limits the viability of these 2 weapons in these specific areas (mainly in Highlander/pubs), and should Valve add more projectiles like this in the future would affect them too.
Thanks.
Basically, Valve coded how the Pomson & Wrap Assassin projectiles work differently than every other projectile in the game. Other projectiles check collision by checking individual brushes, however these 2 weapons check collision by seeing if they intersect with a bounding box.
The problem here is that the connector on Product uses func_lod in such a way where these 2 weapon's projectiles always intersect the bounding box of the func_lod when you shoot towards the connector. If you try to shoot either weapon into/out of connector (or a small area around the entrances to connector) the projectiles disappear (in the case of the Wrap bauble it explodes).
This isn't a terribly important issue to fix right away (e: altho having an rc9 before product is played in UGC in 2 weeks would be lit), however it limits the viability of these 2 weapons in these specific areas (mainly in Highlander/pubs), and should Valve add more projectiles like this in the future would affect them too.
Thanks.
DarkNecridHey Fubar, I don't know if you still visit here (and if he doesn't, anyone on his friends list who sees this and wants to let him know this would be appreciated greatly), but I'd like to very politely request a small (but important unless Valve fixes it themselves) change made to Product whenever you can.
Basically, Valve coded how the Pomson & Wrap Assassin projectiles work differently than every other projectile in the game. Other projectiles check collision by checking individual brushes, however these 2 weapons check collision by seeing if they intersect with a bounding box.
The problem here is that the connector on Product uses func_lod in such a way where these 2 weapon's projectiles always intersect the bounding box of the func_lod when you shoot towards the connector. If you try to shoot either weapon into/out of connector (or a small area around the entrances to connector) the projectiles disappear (in the case of the Wrap bauble it explodes).
This isn't a terribly important issue to fix right away (e: altho having an rc9 before product is played in UGC in 2 weeks would be lit), however it limits the viability of these 2 weapons in these specific areas (mainly in Highlander/pubs), and should Valve add more projectiles like this in the future would affect them too.
Thanks.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. If other people have requests/suggestions for rc9, now is a good time.
Make it count, next version could be the definitive one.
[quote=DarkNecrid]Hey Fubar, I don't know if you still visit here (and if he doesn't, anyone on his friends list who sees this and wants to let him know this would be appreciated greatly), but I'd like to very politely request a small (but important unless Valve fixes it themselves) change made to Product whenever you can.
Basically, Valve coded how the Pomson & Wrap Assassin projectiles work differently than every other projectile in the game. Other projectiles check collision by checking individual brushes, however these 2 weapons check collision by seeing if they intersect with a bounding box.
The problem here is that the connector on Product uses func_lod in such a way where these 2 weapon's projectiles always intersect the bounding box of the func_lod when you shoot towards the connector. If you try to shoot either weapon into/out of connector (or a small area around the entrances to connector) the projectiles disappear (in the case of the Wrap bauble it explodes).
This isn't a terribly important issue to fix right away (e: altho having an rc9 before product is played in UGC in 2 weeks would be lit), however it limits the viability of these 2 weapons in these specific areas (mainly in Highlander/pubs), and should Valve add more projectiles like this in the future would affect them too.
Thanks.[/quote]
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. If other people have requests/suggestions for rc9, now is a good time.
Make it count, next version could be the definitive one.
Basically, Valve coded how the Pomson & Wrap Assassin projectiles work differently than every other projectile in the game. Other projectiles check collision by checking individual brushes, however these 2 weapons check collision by seeing if they intersect with a bounding box.
The problem here is that the connector on Product uses func_lod in such a way where these 2 weapon's projectiles always intersect the bounding box of the func_lod when you shoot towards the connector. If you try to shoot either weapon into/out of connector (or a small area around the entrances to connector) the projectiles disappear (in the case of the Wrap bauble it explodes).
This isn't a terribly important issue to fix right away (e: altho having an rc9 before product is played in UGC in 2 weeks would be lit), however it limits the viability of these 2 weapons in these specific areas (mainly in Highlander/pubs), and should Valve add more projectiles like this in the future would affect them too.
Thanks.[/quote]
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. If other people have requests/suggestions for rc9, now is a good time.
Make it count, next version could be the definitive one.
I am not sure what the consensus is, but I wanted to make a suggestion to remove the fence behind the rock.
For highlander and 6s - it essentially allows the sniper to have a sightline through main, pocket, japan, china, and connector while being easily protected and exposing very little of himself to the enemy sniper, which makes sniper v. sniper really difficult. This is due to the geometry of the rock and how 70% of the sniper's body is covered and how the sniper can easily rotate to watch any sightline based off comms. During sac waves, it is difficult to kill the sniper as you are betting on hitting a perfect splash on around the geometry of the rock, while also dealing with pyros, scouts, heavies, etc denying you while you are in the air. Thus, your only viable option is to win the sniper v. sniper fight, which already is a disavantage for the sniper that is not playing on rock as his body is fully exposed and has to deal with flankers/bombers, while the sniper on the rock can be protected by his team and his body is not fully exposed.
For 6's in particular - the biggest argument for keeping the fence behind rock is that it allows the scout to climb up the rock and have the movement to jump back between china, cliff, and rock to deny the soldier and demoman during the sac waves - an important aspect of the metagame in the gamemode. If the fence were to be removed, it would impact scouts as they cannot jump on the rock as freely as they can to deny the bombs, which would potientally make scouts weaker on the map (?). The sniper argument also can apply here in 6's as it would make sniper a bit worse, which is always good.
These are just my thoughts though. I would like to hear other people's opinions regarding this topic.
I am not sure what the consensus is, but I wanted to make a suggestion to remove the fence behind the rock.
For highlander and 6s - it essentially allows the sniper to have a sightline through main, pocket, japan, china, and connector while being easily protected and exposing very little of himself to the enemy sniper, which makes sniper v. sniper really difficult. This is due to the geometry of the rock and how 70% of the sniper's body is covered and how the sniper can easily rotate to watch any sightline based off comms. During sac waves, it is difficult to kill the sniper as you are betting on hitting a perfect splash on around the geometry of the rock, while also dealing with pyros, scouts, heavies, etc denying you while you are in the air. Thus, your only viable option is to win the sniper v. sniper fight, which already is a disavantage for the sniper that is not playing on rock as his body is fully exposed and has to deal with flankers/bombers, while the sniper on the rock can be protected by his team and his body is not fully exposed.
For 6's in particular - the biggest argument for keeping the fence behind rock is that it allows the scout to climb up the rock and have the movement to jump back between china, cliff, and rock to deny the soldier and demoman during the sac waves - an important aspect of the metagame in the gamemode. If the fence were to be removed, it would impact scouts as they cannot jump on the rock as freely as they can to deny the bombs, which would potientally make scouts weaker on the map (?). The sniper argument also can apply here in 6's as it would make sniper a bit worse, which is always good.
These are just my thoughts though. I would like to hear other people's opinions regarding this topic.
For highlander and 6s - it essentially allows the sniper to have a sightline through main, pocket, japan, china, and connector while being easily protected and exposing very little of himself to the enemy sniper, which makes sniper v. sniper really difficult. This is due to the geometry of the rock and how 70% of the sniper's body is covered and how the sniper can easily rotate to watch any sightline based off comms. During sac waves, it is difficult to kill the sniper as you are betting on hitting a perfect splash on around the geometry of the rock, while also dealing with pyros, scouts, heavies, etc denying you while you are in the air. Thus, your only viable option is to win the sniper v. sniper fight, which already is a disavantage for the sniper that is not playing on rock as his body is fully exposed and has to deal with flankers/bombers, while the sniper on the rock can be protected by his team and his body is not fully exposed.
For 6's in particular - the biggest argument for keeping the fence behind rock is that it allows the scout to climb up the rock and have the movement to jump back between china, cliff, and rock to deny the soldier and demoman during the sac waves - an important aspect of the metagame in the gamemode. If the fence were to be removed, it would impact scouts as they cannot jump on the rock as freely as they can to deny the bombs, which would potientally make scouts weaker on the map (?). The sniper argument also can apply here in 6's as it would make sniper a bit worse, which is always good.
These are just my thoughts though. I would like to hear other people's opinions regarding this topic.
ExaflamerI am not sure what the consensus is, but I wanted to make a suggestion to remove the fence behind the rock.
For highlander and 6s - it essentially allows the sniper to have a sightline through main, pocket, japan, china, and connector while being easily protected and exposing very little of himself to the enemy sniper, which makes sniper v. sniper really difficult. This is due to the geometry of the rock and how 70% of the sniper's body is covered and how the sniper can easily rotate to watch any sightline based off comms. During sac waves, it is difficult to kill the sniper as you are betting on hitting a perfect splash on around the geometry of the rock, while also dealing with pyros, scouts, heavies, etc denying you while you are in the air. Thus, your only viable option is to win the sniper v. sniper fight, which already is a disavantage for the sniper that is not playing on rock as his body is fully exposed and has to deal with flankers/bombers, while the sniper on the rocket can be protected by his team and his body is not fully exposed.
For 6's in particular - the biggest argument for keeping the fence behind rock is that it allows the scout to climb up the rock and have the movement to jump back between china, cliff, and rock to deny the soldier and demoman during the sac waves - an important aspect of the metagame in the gamemode. If the fence were to be removed, it would impact scouts as they cannot jump on the rock as freely as they can to deny the bombs, which would potientally make scouts weaker on the map (?). The sniper argument also can apply here in 6's as it would make sniper a bit worse, which is always good.
These are just my thoughts though. I would like to hear other people's opinions regarding this topic.
iirc scouts can use winger to get on the rock anyway. the fence is enough of a problem in hl to be removed imo
[quote=Exaflamer]I am not sure what the consensus is, but I wanted to make a suggestion to remove the fence behind the rock.
For highlander and 6s - it essentially allows the sniper to have a sightline through main, pocket, japan, china, and connector while being easily protected and exposing very little of himself to the enemy sniper, which makes sniper v. sniper really difficult. This is due to the geometry of the rock and how 70% of the sniper's body is covered and how the sniper can easily rotate to watch any sightline based off comms. During sac waves, it is difficult to kill the sniper as you are betting on hitting a perfect splash on around the geometry of the rock, while also dealing with pyros, scouts, heavies, etc denying you while you are in the air. Thus, your only viable option is to win the sniper v. sniper fight, which already is a disavantage for the sniper that is not playing on rock as his body is fully exposed and has to deal with flankers/bombers, while the sniper on the rocket can be protected by his team and his body is not fully exposed.
For 6's in particular - the biggest argument for keeping the fence behind rock is that it allows the scout to climb up the rock and have the movement to jump back between china, cliff, and rock to deny the soldier and demoman during the sac waves - an important aspect of the metagame in the gamemode. If the fence were to be removed, it would impact scouts as they cannot jump on the rock as freely as they can to deny the bombs, which would potientally make scouts weaker on the map (?). The sniper argument also can apply here in 6's as it would make sniper a bit worse, which is always good.
These are just my thoughts though. I would like to hear other people's opinions regarding this topic.[/quote]
iirc scouts can use winger to get on the rock anyway. the fence is enough of a problem in hl to be removed imo
For highlander and 6s - it essentially allows the sniper to have a sightline through main, pocket, japan, china, and connector while being easily protected and exposing very little of himself to the enemy sniper, which makes sniper v. sniper really difficult. This is due to the geometry of the rock and how 70% of the sniper's body is covered and how the sniper can easily rotate to watch any sightline based off comms. During sac waves, it is difficult to kill the sniper as you are betting on hitting a perfect splash on around the geometry of the rock, while also dealing with pyros, scouts, heavies, etc denying you while you are in the air. Thus, your only viable option is to win the sniper v. sniper fight, which already is a disavantage for the sniper that is not playing on rock as his body is fully exposed and has to deal with flankers/bombers, while the sniper on the rocket can be protected by his team and his body is not fully exposed.
For 6's in particular - the biggest argument for keeping the fence behind rock is that it allows the scout to climb up the rock and have the movement to jump back between china, cliff, and rock to deny the soldier and demoman during the sac waves - an important aspect of the metagame in the gamemode. If the fence were to be removed, it would impact scouts as they cannot jump on the rock as freely as they can to deny the bombs, which would potientally make scouts weaker on the map (?). The sniper argument also can apply here in 6's as it would make sniper a bit worse, which is always good.
These are just my thoughts though. I would like to hear other people's opinions regarding this topic.[/quote]
iirc scouts can use winger to get on the rock anyway. the fence is enough of a problem in hl to be removed imo
Off the top of my head, If the enemy sniper is on the fence, you can peek your head from behind the stairs by concrete and see the sniper's head and most of his body, and it's the fastest way to svs him without waiting for him to peek any other angles. There's plenty of other dumb angles where you can see practically everything, but the fence is definitely pretty powerful since you can see everything and play directly around your team.
That being said, I wouldn't be too sad if the fence got nerfed/removed. I've heard the proposal before, and product has had similar changes before (iirc china was shortened at some point due to similar complaints). Considering that HL is nowhere near where it used to be in term of popularity and high-level players (at least in NA idk about EU). I wouldn't change it just for HL but if people think it's broken enough for scout in 6's then go for it I guess. The map has been around for as long as I've been playing so it does seem a little silly to change such a iconic feature of the map this late, but i'm a dumb sniper main so I'm probably rather biased.
Off the top of my head, If the enemy sniper is on the fence, you can peek your head from behind the stairs by concrete and see the sniper's head and most of his body, and it's the fastest way to svs him without waiting for him to peek any other angles. There's plenty of other dumb angles where you can see practically everything, but the fence is definitely pretty powerful since you can see everything and play directly around your team.
That being said, I wouldn't be too sad if the fence got nerfed/removed. I've heard the proposal before, and product has had similar changes before (iirc china was shortened at some point due to similar complaints). Considering that HL is nowhere near where it used to be in term of popularity and high-level players (at least in NA idk about EU). I wouldn't change it just for HL but if people think it's broken enough for scout in 6's then go for it I guess. The map has been around for as long as I've been playing so it does seem a little silly to change such a iconic feature of the map this late, but i'm a dumb sniper main so I'm probably rather biased.
That being said, I wouldn't be too sad if the fence got nerfed/removed. I've heard the proposal before, and product has had similar changes before (iirc china was shortened at some point due to similar complaints). Considering that HL is nowhere near where it used to be in term of popularity and high-level players (at least in NA idk about EU). I wouldn't change it just for HL but if people think it's broken enough for scout in 6's then go for it I guess. The map has been around for as long as I've been playing so it does seem a little silly to change such a iconic feature of the map this late, but i'm a dumb sniper main so I'm probably rather biased.
scouts can get on the rock without the winger, and can also get onto china via the windowsill below china facing the point. Also if removing the fence is too big of a problem for 6s, another solution may be to raise it, or grade the ground arround the rock so that the fence is only accessible via double jump.
Also, the only scout jump that can not be done with the wood is the jump from bridge/japan onto the rock. All other jumps and ways to get onto the rock are still accessible without the wood.
I agree, this change is a good one with few reprocussions that will make sniper weaker on the point.
Thinking about other classes, specifically highlander, I think the removal would make playing in the pocket more appealing compared to behind rock, as a team can not plant their heavy/sniper on the rock anymore.
scouts can get on the rock without the winger, and can also get onto china via the windowsill below china facing the point. Also if removing the fence is too big of a problem for 6s, another solution may be to raise it, or grade the ground arround the rock so that the fence is only accessible via double jump.
Also, the only scout jump that can not be done with the wood is the jump from bridge/japan onto the rock. All other jumps and ways to get onto the rock are still accessible without the wood.
I agree, this change is a good one with few reprocussions that will make sniper weaker on the point.
Thinking about other classes, specifically highlander, I think the removal would make playing in the pocket more appealing compared to behind rock, as a team can not plant their heavy/sniper on the rock anymore.
Also, the only scout jump that can not be done with the wood is the jump from bridge/japan onto the rock. All other jumps and ways to get onto the rock are still accessible without the wood.
I agree, this change is a good one with few reprocussions that will make sniper weaker on the point.
Thinking about other classes, specifically highlander, I think the removal would make playing in the pocket more appealing compared to behind rock, as a team can not plant their heavy/sniper on the rock anymore.
I personally agree with the intent behind #42's suggestion but disagree with the way to get there.
Sniper on rock is pretty damn powerful, but I would much rather prefer just adjusting the rock's geometry / size so that the spot isn't as powerful (but still an option) and so that projectiles/hitscan are easier to land there. Basically, expose the Sniper significantly more so that it's infinitely easier for the other Sniper to contest from multiple points (but still gives the defending Sniper a tiny advantage) and easier for him to get pressured/bombed.
...this is also admittedly likely more work than just removing the fence, but I think it'd be much better for gameplay overall than just removing options entirely. If the fence is empty it can also be pretty nice to escape on with cloak as a Spy since people don't usually expect you to jump on it and expect you to just stay on the ground.
e:
Shrinking the rock also shouldn't majorly affect any sightlines for defending Snipers since you can stand on boxes and see over the enemy's rock regardless.
e2:
Something like this for more visual oriented people: http://i.imgur.com/y4Nm4eI.png
Note: Nowhere near exactly spaced, it'd have to be spaced correctly to prevent crouched Sniper being dumb.
The main purpose would be so that if you're standing you'd have a significantly larger section of your body (and more importantly head) exposed at all angles, if you're in the middle of behind the rock you'd still have almost your entire upper body exposed, while on the sides you'd have part of your side and most of your chest and entire head exposed. If you're crouched you'd still be more exposed than currently at all angles (with the added downside of you're crouched so you can't move around quickly without standing which now exposes yourself).
Ideally if done properly this would still be a solid rotation spot for Snipers still but wouldn't be a consistent spot to just stand at for most of the game on defense anymore, while still having enough height that denying jumpers shouldn't be impacted significantly in 6s.
I personally agree with the intent behind #42's suggestion but disagree with the way to get there.
Sniper on rock is pretty damn powerful, but I would much rather prefer just adjusting the rock's geometry / size so that the spot isn't as powerful (but still an option) and so that projectiles/hitscan are easier to land there. Basically, expose the Sniper significantly more so that it's infinitely easier for the other Sniper to contest from multiple points (but still gives the defending Sniper a tiny advantage) and easier for him to get pressured/bombed.
...this is also admittedly likely more work than just removing the fence, but I think it'd be much better for gameplay overall than just removing options entirely. If the fence is empty it can also be pretty nice to escape on with cloak as a Spy since people don't usually expect you to jump on it and expect you to just stay on the ground.
e:
Shrinking the rock also shouldn't majorly affect any sightlines for defending Snipers since you can stand on boxes and see over the enemy's rock regardless.
e2:
Something like this for more visual oriented people: http://i.imgur.com/y4Nm4eI.png
Note: Nowhere near exactly spaced, it'd have to be spaced correctly to prevent crouched Sniper being dumb.
The main purpose would be so that if you're standing you'd have a significantly larger section of your body (and more importantly head) exposed at all angles, if you're in the middle of behind the rock you'd still have almost your entire upper body exposed, while on the sides you'd have part of your side and most of your chest and entire head exposed. If you're crouched you'd still be more exposed than currently at all angles (with the added downside of you're crouched so you can't move around quickly without standing which now exposes yourself).
Ideally if done properly this would still be a solid rotation spot for Snipers still but wouldn't be a consistent spot to just stand at for most of the game on defense anymore, while still having enough height that denying jumpers shouldn't be impacted significantly in 6s.
Sniper on rock is pretty damn powerful, but I would much rather prefer just adjusting the rock's geometry / size so that the spot isn't as powerful (but still an option) and so that projectiles/hitscan are easier to land there. Basically, expose the Sniper significantly more so that it's infinitely easier for the other Sniper to contest from multiple points (but still gives the defending Sniper a tiny advantage) and easier for him to get pressured/bombed.
...this is also admittedly likely more work than just removing the fence, but I think it'd be much better for gameplay overall than just removing options entirely. If the fence is empty it can also be pretty nice to escape on with cloak as a Spy since people don't usually expect you to jump on it and expect you to just stay on the ground.
e:
Shrinking the rock also shouldn't majorly affect any sightlines for defending Snipers since you can stand on boxes and see over the enemy's rock regardless.
e2:
Something like this for more visual oriented people: http://i.imgur.com/y4Nm4eI.png
Note: Nowhere near exactly spaced, it'd have to be spaced correctly to prevent crouched Sniper being dumb.
The main purpose would be so that if you're standing you'd have a significantly larger section of your body (and more importantly head) exposed at all angles, if you're in the middle of behind the rock you'd still have almost your entire upper body exposed, while on the sides you'd have part of your side and most of your chest and entire head exposed. If you're crouched you'd still be more exposed than currently at all angles (with the added downside of you're crouched so you can't move around quickly without standing which now exposes yourself).
Ideally if done properly this would still be a solid rotation spot for Snipers still but wouldn't be a consistent spot to just stand at for most of the game on defense anymore, while still having enough height that denying jumpers shouldn't be impacted significantly in 6s.
Hey Fubar, just wanted to make sure you're aware of this since it's in another thread, but the spawn zones on both spawns seem like they are set to both teams + extend outside the spawn partially, so if you run into the enemy's spawn door and change classes you will teleport back to your own team's spawn across the entire map.
Hey Fubar, just wanted to make sure you're aware of this since it's in another thread, but the spawn zones on both spawns seem like they are set to both teams + extend outside the spawn partially, so if you run into the enemy's spawn door and change classes you will teleport back to your own team's spawn across the entire map.
#46 I don't think shrinking the rock is good solution. The rock isn't used only by Snipers. Medics also like to use it as cover from enemy Snipers. I'd have to check, but I believe it can be used to hide from Cliff, House, China, Rock, Main, or Concrete, depending on where the Medic is standing. In your own screenshot, the rock is keeping you safe from a Sniper in House (I think), on China, on Rock, or in Main. If you shrink the rock to your blue outline, you would be exposed to all of those sightlines.
#46 I don't think shrinking the rock is good solution. The rock isn't used only by Snipers. Medics also like to use it as cover from enemy Snipers. I'd have to check, but I believe it can be used to hide from Cliff, House, China, Rock, Main, or Concrete, depending on where the Medic is standing. In your own screenshot, the rock is keeping you safe from a Sniper in House (I think), on China, on Rock, or in Main. If you shrink the rock to your blue outline, you would be exposed to all of those sightlines.
#48 Nope, in my screenshot I am noclipped floating above the ground by quite a bit to get the best picture of rock from the perspective of an offensive Sniper, a Medic would still be protected by all those things because in reality there is a substantial slope into the ground there, you can't actually stand at that height at that spot in my original picture without noclipping. (and I've never seen a Medic actually stand on fence itself? Medic is only 1 inch shorter than Sniper so that wouldn't work out too well for you unless you were crouched on fence 24/7 which shouldn't be a very good idea for a class that needs to surf rockets/escape on a moments notice)
This is the almost the exact same spot (just moved forward against the fence since that helps with clipping rockets from bombers so it's a more realistic position) without the noclipping (as a Medic even to alleviate any worry): http://i.imgur.com/H6JzDaV.jpg
Even with my clipping you'd be super well protected from enemy Snipers. You'd have to move off the slope to flat ground on the left (basically the very very far left of the fence) or past the fence on the right out into the open to lose the Sniper protection due to the slope existing.
#48 Nope, in my screenshot I am noclipped floating above the ground by quite a bit to get the best picture of rock from the perspective of an offensive Sniper, a Medic would still be protected by all those things because in reality there is a substantial slope into the ground there, you can't actually stand at that height at that spot in my original picture without noclipping. (and I've never seen a Medic actually stand on fence itself? Medic is only 1 inch shorter than Sniper so that wouldn't work out too well for you unless you were crouched on fence 24/7 which shouldn't be a very good idea for a class that needs to surf rockets/escape on a moments notice)
This is the almost the exact same spot (just moved forward against the fence since that helps with clipping rockets from bombers so it's a more realistic position) without the noclipping (as a Medic even to alleviate any worry): http://i.imgur.com/H6JzDaV.jpg
Even with my clipping you'd be super well protected from enemy Snipers. You'd have to move off the slope to flat ground on the left (basically the very very far left of the fence) or past the fence on the right out into the open to lose the Sniper protection due to the slope existing.
This is the almost the exact same spot (just moved forward against the fence since that helps with clipping rockets from bombers so it's a more realistic position) without the noclipping (as a Medic even to alleviate any worry): http://i.imgur.com/H6JzDaV.jpg
Even with my clipping you'd be super well protected from enemy Snipers. You'd have to move off the slope to flat ground on the left (basically the very very far left of the fence) or past the fence on the right out into the open to lose the Sniper protection due to the slope existing.
Hey there, small update for fairly large issues. Here's rc9
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=12842
changelog:
-fixed pomson, bison and wrap assassin projectiles being blocked by the middle connector.
-prevents wallbugging above "concrete" houses for information
-other minor adjustments
Hey there, small update for fairly large issues. Here's rc9
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=12842
changelog:
-fixed pomson, bison and wrap assassin projectiles being blocked by the middle connector.
-prevents wallbugging above "concrete" houses for information
-other minor adjustments
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=12842
changelog:
-fixed pomson, bison and wrap assassin projectiles being blocked by the middle connector.
-prevents wallbugging above "concrete" houses for information
-other minor adjustments
Fubar-fixed pomson, bison and wrap assassin projectiles being blocked by the middle connector.
Thank you so much for this!
[quote=Fubar]-fixed pomson, bison and [b]wrap assassin projectiles[/b] being blocked by the middle connector.[/quote]
Thank you so much for this!
Thank you so much for this!
so hey when is rc9 gonna start getting used in leagues and pugs and stuff
so hey when is rc9 gonna start getting used in leagues and pugs and stuff
Hey! here's a new version:
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=18447
Here are the changes:
- prevent players from changing class from the enemy spawn
- fixed smoothing groups on the rock models
These are the last changes I'll be making on koth_Product!
Here are the source files for the map:
https://github.com/maxdup/koth_product
Godspeed!
The Proper Announcement:
All of our efforts have been directed at polishing and maintaining the map for the best gameplay possible while of course, always preserving balance and performance, but most importantly, staying true to the original and making it one of the most robust maps of all. With the help of the community, we've pushed this map as far as we could. We're confident that the map is as good as it can be and we feel we've essentially ran out of space for significant changes to be made. We gave the map a direction and took it to the end of it. We feel that to keep going forward, we'd have to go in an other direction, one that probably wouldn't be Product. So we're stopping development; the "Product" canon has ended.
Going Forward:
Product is dead, long live Product! We're making the map open source so you're free to experiement with it and do whatever you want! There's already multiple initiatives in the works and we're excited to see where the community takes the map next. But! To avoid any confusion, we ask that you don't call your map any variation of "koth_product_rc*", "koth_product_final*" and definitely not "koth_product". There will no longer be a "mainline" Product, and the name of your release should reflect that.
The mainline can be resuscitated if and when the community feels the need but it is not my place to determine how that will take place or under who's authority. Until then, If you feel you've made worthwhile changes that you think fall under Product's philosophy, feel free to submit them to the Github project as a "pull request". The changes will be reviewed. I'm willing to act as a curator of future modifications and publish new versions when appropriate but I will not be implementing changes myself anymore.
Viaduct Pro was started by Tyler, and carried on by Fubar and Bubblebobber with the help of countless players.
Thanks all, it's been a fun ride.
Hey! here's a new version:
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=18447
Here are the changes:
- prevent players from changing class from the enemy spawn
- fixed smoothing groups on the rock models
These are the last changes I'll be making on koth_Product!
Here are the source files for the map:
https://github.com/maxdup/koth_product
Godspeed!
The Proper Announcement:
All of our efforts have been directed at polishing and maintaining the map for the best gameplay possible while of course, always preserving balance and performance, but most importantly, staying true to the original and making it one of the most robust maps of all. With the help of the community, we've pushed this map as far as we could. We're confident that the map is as good as it can be and we feel we've essentially ran out of space for significant changes to be made. We gave the map a direction and took it to the end of it. We feel that to keep going forward, we'd have to go in an other direction, one that probably wouldn't be Product. So we're stopping development; the "Product" canon has ended.
Going Forward:
Product is dead, long live Product! We're making the map open source so you're free to experiement with it and do whatever you want! There's already multiple initiatives in the works and we're excited to see where the community takes the map next. But! To avoid any confusion, we ask that you don't call your map any variation of "koth_product_rc*", "koth_product_final*" and definitely not "koth_product". There will no longer be a "mainline" Product, and the name of your release should reflect that.
The mainline can be resuscitated if and when the community feels the need but it is not my place to determine how that will take place or under who's authority. Until then, If you feel you've made worthwhile changes that you think fall under Product's philosophy, feel free to submit them to the Github project as a "pull request". The changes will be reviewed. I'm willing to act as a curator of future modifications and publish new versions when appropriate but I will not be implementing changes myself anymore.
Viaduct Pro was started by Tyler, and carried on by Fubar and Bubblebobber with the help of countless players.
Thanks all, it's been a fun ride.
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=18447
Here are the changes:
- prevent players from changing class from the enemy spawn
- fixed smoothing groups on the rock models
These are the last changes I'll be making on koth_Product!
Here are the source files for the map:
https://github.com/maxdup/koth_product
Godspeed!
The Proper Announcement:
All of our efforts have been directed at polishing and maintaining the map for the best gameplay possible while of course, always preserving balance and performance, but most importantly, staying true to the original and making it one of the most robust maps of all. With the help of the community, we've pushed this map as far as we could. We're confident that the map is as good as it can be and we feel we've essentially ran out of space for significant changes to be made. We gave the map a direction and took it to the end of it. We feel that to keep going forward, we'd have to go in an other direction, one that probably wouldn't be Product. So we're stopping development; the "Product" canon has ended.
Going Forward:
Product is dead, long live Product! We're making the map open source so you're free to experiement with it and do whatever you want! There's already multiple initiatives in the works and we're excited to see where the community takes the map next. But! To avoid any confusion, we ask that you don't call your map any variation of "koth_product_rc*", "koth_product_final*" and definitely not "koth_product". There will no longer be a "mainline" Product, and the name of your release should reflect that.
The mainline can be resuscitated if and when the community feels the need but it is not my place to determine how that will take place or under who's authority. Until then, If you feel you've made worthwhile changes that you think fall under Product's philosophy, feel free to submit them to the Github project as a "pull request". The changes will be reviewed. I'm willing to act as a curator of future modifications and publish new versions when appropriate but I will not be implementing changes myself anymore.
Viaduct Pro was started by Tyler, and carried on by Fubar and Bubblebobber with the help of countless players.
Thanks all, it's been a fun ride.
Thanks a lot for making the sources available, could you also add a license to the repository? Until explicitly stated otherwise, your work is protected by copyright. I believe Creative Commons is best used for assets: https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/
Thanks a lot for making the sources available, could you also add a license to the repository? Until explicitly stated otherwise, your work is protected by copyright. I believe Creative Commons is best used for assets: https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/
twiikuuThanks a lot for making the sources available, could you also add a license to the repository? Until explicitly stated otherwise, your work is protected by copyright. I believe Creative Commons is best used for assets: https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/
Viaduct, is copyrighted by Valve, I cannot sublicense it and I forfeit all rights. As for the assets themselves, again, most assets are derivative of Valve assets and I cannot sublicense them. The few original assets are from creators who have not provided a license with their assets. That said I wouldn't worry too much, you're pretty much in the clear.
[quote=twiikuu]Thanks a lot for making the sources available, could you also add a license to the repository? Until explicitly stated otherwise, your work is protected by copyright. I believe Creative Commons is best used for assets: https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/[/quote]
Viaduct, is copyrighted by Valve, I cannot sublicense it and I forfeit all rights. As for the assets themselves, again, most assets are derivative of Valve assets and I cannot sublicense them. The few original assets are from creators who have not provided a license with their assets. That said I wouldn't worry too much, you're pretty much in the clear.
Viaduct, is copyrighted by Valve, I cannot sublicense it and I forfeit all rights. As for the assets themselves, again, most assets are derivative of Valve assets and I cannot sublicense them. The few original assets are from creators who have not provided a license with their assets. That said I wouldn't worry too much, you're pretty much in the clear.
big thanks to Fubar for working on this project for so many years - I hope everyone realises how lucky we are to have had a mapmaker who doesn't even play competitive themselves take on an existing project and listen to the community's suggestions so well, and also do such an amazing job outside of the frontend balance changes (it's easy to forget now, but through product's development there have been significant improvements to how well the map runs fps-wise)
edit: also thanks to ond kaja and jackylegs specifically - they contributed a gigantic amount of bugfixes/suggestions
big thanks to Fubar for working on this project for so many years - I hope everyone realises how lucky we are to have had a mapmaker who doesn't even play competitive themselves take on an existing project and listen to the community's suggestions so well, and also do such an amazing job outside of the frontend balance changes (it's easy to forget now, but through product's development there have been significant improvements to how well the map runs fps-wise)
edit: also thanks to ond kaja and jackylegs specifically - they contributed a gigantic amount of bugfixes/suggestions
edit: also thanks to ond kaja and jackylegs specifically - they contributed a gigantic amount of bugfixes/suggestions
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