Ringo__StarrAs much as i never thought id agree with alfa on anything cevo really did fuck up tf2's growth at a really bad time. Esea even had enough teams to make a main division lol.
how exactly did cevo divide the community? i wasnt around when this happened and all i know is that lange quit tf2 after cevo died
[quote=Ringo__Starr]As much as i never thought id agree with alfa on anything cevo really did fuck up tf2's growth at a really bad time. Esea even had enough teams to make a main division lol.[/quote]
how exactly did cevo divide the community? i wasnt around when this happened and all i know is that lange quit tf2 after cevo died
after blaze's echeck killed watch this the number of competitive lan teams shrunk to bannys team and plats team
around the same time esea's bitcoin mining thing got leaked and pure and justin all vehemently tried to get the entire community to switch to cevo/boycott esea for being a shitty service
for various reasons no one actually played cevo (or just nowhere near the levels of entrants that esea would get) and lange gave up on the project pretty fast. (not fast enough to stop dopa from winning open though.) regardless, the 'boycott esea' notion caused team numbers to dwindle in esea as well, at a point where previously numbers were only going up.
you can say this isnt a sufficient summary of every factor or that correlation doesnt imply causation but the player base has never been back up to that s14-15 level so it is what it is.
after blaze's echeck killed watch this the number of competitive lan teams shrunk to bannys team and plats team
around the same time esea's bitcoin mining thing got leaked and pure and justin all vehemently tried to get the entire community to switch to cevo/boycott esea for being a shitty service
for various reasons no one actually played cevo (or just nowhere near the levels of entrants that esea would get) and lange gave up on the project pretty fast. (not fast enough to stop dopa from winning open though.) regardless, the 'boycott esea' notion caused team numbers to dwindle in esea as well, at a point where previously numbers were only going up.
you can say this isnt a sufficient summary of every factor or that correlation doesnt imply causation but the player base has never been back up to that s14-15 level so it is what it is.
Ringo__StarrAs much as i never thought id agree with alfa on anything cevo really did fuck up tf2's growth at a really bad time. Esea even had enough teams to make a main division lol.
You mean Lange fucked it up so hard cause he was the one who actually pushed The CEVOvsESEA bullshit at the worst time possible, Justin and pyyyour didn't have nearly as much to do with it besides starting the idea. Lange only gave up the project after the backlash it caused
[quote=Ringo__Starr]As much as i never thought id agree with alfa on anything cevo really did fuck up tf2's growth at a really bad time. Esea even had enough teams to make a main division lol.[/quote]
You mean Lange fucked it up so hard cause he was the one who actually pushed The CEVOvsESEA bullshit at the worst time possible, Justin and pyyyour didn't have nearly as much to do with it besides starting the idea. Lange only gave up the project after the backlash it caused
I really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.
I really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.
asianb0yhI really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.
lol what a stupid fucking idea. if he actually thinks that is going to work then everything has been a lie.
[quote=asianb0yh]I really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.[/quote]
lol what a stupid fucking idea. if he actually thinks that is going to work then everything has been a lie.
Starry_Nebulae(...)almost a year after the release of official matchmaking
https://puu.sh/w8OcH/f2364a1419.png
fuck me I was so sure it was released way later than that
this is so disheartening
[quote=Starry_Nebulae](...)almost a year after the release of official matchmaking[/quote]
[img]https://puu.sh/w8OcH/f2364a1419.png[/img]
fuck me I was so sure it was released way later than that
this is so disheartening
i feel like the whole 'tf2 is dying' crisis has closely resembled the 5 stages of grief, and based on what i''m seeing in this thread, we're transitioning to 'acceptance'
i feel like the whole 'tf2 is dying' crisis has closely resembled the 5 stages of grief, and based on what i''m seeing in this thread, we're transitioning to 'acceptance'
asianb0yhI really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.
Competitive TF2 is a straving hobo dying on the streets. We don't refuse a hamburger because we want a steak. We take what we can get. Even if its a weird game mode with some gimmicky whitelist.
[quote=asianb0yh]I really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.[/quote]
Competitive TF2 is a straving hobo dying on the streets. We don't refuse a hamburger because we want a steak. We take what we can get. Even if its a weird game mode with some gimmicky whitelist.
who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl
who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl
LegendaryRQAasianb0yhI really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.
Competitive TF2 is a straving hobo dying on the streets. We don't refuse a hamburger because we want a steak. We take what we can get. Even if its a weird game mode with some gimmicky whitelist.
shut up
[quote=LegendaryRQA][quote=asianb0yh]I really hope this doesn't mean we will have to play sigafoo's 7v7 league in the future.[/quote]
Competitive TF2 is a straving hobo dying on the streets. We don't refuse a hamburger because we want a steak. We take what we can get. Even if its a weird game mode with some gimmicky whitelist.[/quote]
shut up
bLai feel like the whole 'tf2 is dying' crisis has closely resembled the 5 stages of grief, and based on what i''m seeing in this thread, we're transitioning to 'acceptance'
We've been on "acceptance" for a few years now bud
[quote=bLa]i feel like the whole 'tf2 is dying' crisis has closely resembled the 5 stages of grief, and based on what i''m seeing in this thread, we're transitioning to 'acceptance'[/quote]
We've been on "acceptance" for a few years now bud
lucrativeRingo__StarrAs much as i never thought id agree with alfa on anything cevo really did fuck up tf2's growth at a really bad time. Esea even had enough teams to make a main division lol.
You mean Lange fucked it up so hard cause he was the one who actually pushed The CEVOvsESEA bullshit at the worst time possible, Justin and pyyyour didn't have nearly as much to do with it besides starting the idea. Lange only gave up the project after the backlash it caused
You mean ESEA fucked it up by illegally hijacking players' computers with malware to mine bitcoins.
[quote=lucrative][quote=Ringo__Starr]As much as i never thought id agree with alfa on anything cevo really did fuck up tf2's growth at a really bad time. Esea even had enough teams to make a main division lol.[/quote]
You mean Lange fucked it up so hard cause he was the one who actually pushed The CEVOvsESEA bullshit at the worst time possible, Justin and pyyyour didn't have nearly as much to do with it besides starting the idea. Lange only gave up the project after the backlash it caused[/quote]
You mean ESEA fucked it up by illegally hijacking players' computers with malware to mine bitcoins.
sco_who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl
HL has been the thorn in the side of 6's since the beginning. That idiotic game mode has attracted way more new players because it has such a low learning curve as compared to 6's.
6's is clearly the better game mode for top level play, its not even debatable. HL is really just a joke but they eat up the new player base because playing in a pub is like playing HL.
Imagine the 6's community with the HL player base folded into it. We would have several thriving divisions.
[quote=sco_]who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl[/quote]
HL has been the thorn in the side of 6's since the beginning. That idiotic game mode has attracted way more new players because it has such a low learning curve as compared to 6's.
6's is clearly the better game mode for top level play, its not even debatable. HL is really just a joke but they eat up the new player base because playing in a pub is like playing HL.
Imagine the 6's community with the HL player base folded into it. We would have several thriving divisions.
basically this is just the same situation we were in before mm came out except worse. if the pyro update is good and actually fixes matchmaking we could be in business and player numbers may rise. if it isn't we'll just continue down the same slow downhill slope we've been on for years until only the most committed players remain. either way tf2 will live for ages yet.
basically this is just the same situation we were in before mm came out except worse. if the pyro update is good and actually fixes matchmaking we could be in business and player numbers may rise. if it isn't we'll just continue down the same slow downhill slope we've been on for years until only the most committed players remain. either way tf2 will live for ages yet.
[url=http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=29770]meanwhile at valve[/url]
Cyanicbasically this is just the same situation we were in before mm came out except worse. if the pyro update is good and actually fixes matchmaking we could be in business and player numbers may rise. if it isn't we'll just continue down the same slow downhill slope we've been on for years until only the most committed players remain. either way tf2 will live for ages yet.
BIG FUCKING IF.
SpaceCadetsco_who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl
HL has been the thorn in the side of 6's since the beginning. That idiotic game mode has attracted way more new players because it has such a low learning curve as compared to 6's.
6's is clearly the better game mode for top level play, its not even debatable. HL is really just a joke but they eat up the new player base because playing in a pub is like playing HL.
Imagine the 6's community with the HL player base folded into it. We would have several thriving divisions.
Nothing you said is wrong but it is so illogical to continue to go with 6s. If valve is right on one thing it is class limits. to noobs it is so unappealing to see that you cant play your favorite class. pyro heavy and engineer are fucking useless basically but believe or not some people like playing those classes. If you want a competitive scene you need noobs too. It is so illogical to just keep fighting valve like they dont care literally don't care about us they care about their game. I like 6s 100% more than hl but the lack of professional support for 6s is so evident why do people try and push for mm in 6s it doesn't make sense. sorry for gibberish im getting ready for work :/
[quote=Cyanic]basically this is just the same situation we were in before mm came out except worse. if the pyro update is good and actually fixes matchmaking we could be in business and player numbers may rise. if it isn't we'll just continue down the same slow downhill slope we've been on for years until only the most committed players remain. either way tf2 will live for ages yet.[/quote]
BIG FUCKING IF.
[quote=SpaceCadet][quote=sco_]who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl[/quote]
HL has been the thorn in the side of 6's since the beginning. That idiotic game mode has attracted way more new players because it has such a low learning curve as compared to 6's.
6's is clearly the better game mode for top level play, its not even debatable. HL is really just a joke but they eat up the new player base because playing in a pub is like playing HL.
Imagine the 6's community with the HL player base folded into it. We would have several thriving divisions.[/quote]
Nothing you said is wrong but it is so illogical to continue to go with 6s. If valve is right on one thing it is class limits. to noobs it is so unappealing to see that you cant play your favorite class. pyro heavy and engineer are fucking useless basically but believe or not some people like playing those classes. If you want a competitive scene you need noobs too. It is so illogical to just keep fighting valve like they dont care literally don't care about us they care about their game. I like 6s 100% more than hl but the lack of professional support for 6s is so evident why do people try and push for mm in 6s it doesn't make sense. sorry for gibberish im getting ready for work :/
I'm not very educated on esea, why is it decreasing in players exactly? It it due to the play fees or something else?
How rapidly is this happening?
I'm not very educated on esea, why is it decreasing in players exactly? It it due to the play fees or something else?
How rapidly is this happening?
CollaideI'm not very educated on esea, why is it decreasing in players exactly? It it due to the play fees or something else?
How rapidly is this happening?
1) lack of incentive to climb to the top due to the fact that winning invite currently is reserved for b4nny and the fact that sandbag teams will continue to play in lower divisions just to secure prize money or so that they aren't forced to "try", which makes many players new to open apprehensive about making the jump to esea because they feel they'll be demoralized and berated by other players (which happens and very often)
2) it's happening very, very, very rapidly, i don't know if the effects have hit the eu side of tf2 yet, considering you guys made a whole new division with fresh meat afaik
[quote=Collaide]I'm not very educated on esea, why is it decreasing in players exactly? It it due to the play fees or something else?
How rapidly is this happening?[/quote]
1) lack of incentive to climb to the top due to the fact that winning invite currently is reserved for b4nny and the fact that sandbag teams will continue to play in lower divisions just to secure prize money or so that they aren't forced to "try", which makes many players new to open apprehensive about making the jump to esea because they feel they'll be demoralized and berated by other players (which happens and very often)
2) it's happening very, very, very rapidly, i don't know if the effects have hit the eu side of tf2 yet, considering you guys made a whole new division with fresh meat afaik
ETF2L team numbers have been dwindling for a while now but I think we're losing more from the bottom than the top.
ETF2L team numbers have been dwindling for a while now but I think we're losing more from the bottom than the top.
ZestyETF2L team numbers have been dwindling for a while now but I think we're losing more from the bottom than the top.
yeah, i'm not too informed on etf2l numbers, but considering you guys have been able to steadily fill prem and high for a while now i assumed they've been in the "acceptable" range
also since i've got some eu attention
NATF2L PLEASE WHO DO WE HAVE TO TALK TO
partner with us and save tf2
[quote=Zesty]ETF2L team numbers have been dwindling for a while now but I think we're losing more from the bottom than the top.[/quote]
yeah, i'm not too informed on etf2l numbers, but considering you guys have been able to steadily fill prem and high for a while now i assumed they've been in the "acceptable" range
also since i've got some eu attention
NATF2L PLEASE WHO DO WE HAVE TO TALK TO
partner with us and save tf2
SpaceCadetsco_who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl
low learning curve as compared to 6's
I don't think that's particularly true. There are actually, like 6 ways to hold borneo first alone.
[quote=SpaceCadet][quote=sco_]who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl[/quote]
low learning curve as compared to 6's[/quote]
I don't think that's particularly true. There are actually, like 6 ways to hold borneo first alone.
LegendaryRQASpaceCadetsco_who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl
low learning curve as compared to 6's
I don't think that's particularly true. There are actually, like 6 ways to hold borneo first alone.
shut up
[quote=LegendaryRQA][quote=SpaceCadet][quote=sco_]who would have thought that esea might die quicker than hl[/quote]
low learning curve as compared to 6's[/quote]
I don't think that's particularly true. There are actually, like 6 ways to hold borneo first alone.[/quote]
shut up
ZestyETF2L team numbers have been dwindling for a while now but I think we're losing more from the bottom than the top.
The long term decline is relatively constant across the divs. It is just that open was larger so it lost more but a similar %. Fun Fact Open in S20 had more teams than the current total for the league.
viperNATF2L PLEASE WHO DO WE HAVE TO TALK TO
partner with us and save tf2
Expanding into NA is an option but not one we have or plan to seriously consider until ESEA is dead. So we might start considering it soon if these predictions about ESEA turn out to be true. The question is what would an NA league of ETF2L offer over a TFCL or UGC.
[quote=Zesty]ETF2L team numbers have been dwindling for a while now but I think we're losing more from the bottom than the top.[/quote]
The long term decline is relatively constant across the divs. It is just that open was larger so it lost more but a similar %. Fun Fact Open in S20 had more teams than the current total for the league.
[quote=viper]
NATF2L PLEASE WHO DO WE HAVE TO TALK TO
partner with us and save tf2[/quote]
Expanding into NA is an option but not one we have or plan to seriously consider until ESEA is dead. So we might start considering it soon if these predictions about ESEA turn out to be true. The question is what would an NA league of ETF2L offer over a TFCL or UGC.
viperCollaideI'm not very educated on esea, why is it decreasing in players exactly? It it due to the play fees or something else?
How rapidly is this happening?
1) lack of incentive to climb to the top due to the fact that winning invite currently is reserved for b4nny and the fact that sandbag teams will continue to play in lower divisions just to secure prize money or so that they aren't forced to "try", which makes many players new to open apprehensive about making the jump to esea because they feel they'll be demoralized and berated by other players (which happens and very often)
Wasn't this always the problem with ESEA?
Why do people start getting so concerned about it now?
[quote=viper][quote=Collaide]I'm not very educated on esea, why is it decreasing in players exactly? It it due to the play fees or something else?
How rapidly is this happening?[/quote]
1) lack of incentive to climb to the top due to the fact that winning invite currently is reserved for b4nny and the fact that sandbag teams will continue to play in lower divisions just to secure prize money or so that they aren't forced to "try", which makes many players new to open apprehensive about making the jump to esea because they feel they'll be demoralized and berated by other players (which happens and very often)[/quote]
Wasn't this always the problem with ESEA?
Why do people start getting so concerned about it now?
Moist_PenguinThe question is what would an NA league of ETF2L offer over a TFCL or UGC.
over ugc, it would offer a prize pot and incentive to win because of said prize pot, considering league fees are a thing
over tfcl, i'm not for sure, because i don't even know about it, but i would go with etf2l simply for exposure because most, if not all na players know what etf2l is but very few are even aware of tfcl
CollaideWasn't this always the problem with ESEA?
Why do people start getting so concerned about it now?
we've been concerned about it ever since the death of esea lan and the whole bitcoin fiasco (and the cevo fiasco if you throw that in there), so na tf2 has been very concerned about its future for well over 2 years now
the main reason it's become such a glaring issue as of late as more and more top players have left the scene for various reasons (quitting, overwatch, tired of the status quo of invite), and because of that more and more players have been shifted up, but without an increase of players at the bottom, this system was doomed to fail
[quote=Moist_Penguin]The question is what would an NA league of ETF2L offer over a TFCL or UGC.[/quote]
over ugc, it would offer a prize pot and incentive to win because of said prize pot, considering league fees are a thing
over tfcl, i'm not for sure, because i don't even know about it, but i would go with etf2l simply for exposure because most, if not all na players know what etf2l is but very few are even aware of tfcl
[quote=Collaide]Wasn't this always the problem with ESEA?
Why do people start getting so concerned about it now?[/quote]
we've been concerned about it ever since the death of esea lan and the whole bitcoin fiasco (and the cevo fiasco if you throw that in there), so na tf2 has been very concerned about its future for well over 2 years now
the main reason it's become such a glaring issue as of late as more and more top players have left the scene for various reasons (quitting, overwatch, tired of the status quo of invite), and because of that more and more players have been shifted up, but without an increase of players at the bottom, this system was doomed to fail
Guys....... I Understand This Is A Very Serious Thread And Competitive TF2's Exact Future And Longevity Is Jeopardized.....
However Check Out THis F*ucking Cute Picture Of An Animal And Give mE UpFrags U F***** Idiets
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBL5G83XUAAmq3a.jpg
thanks
Guys....... I Understand This Is A Very Serious Thread And Competitive TF2's Exact Future And Longevity Is Jeopardized.....
However Check Out THis F*ucking Cute Picture Of An Animal And Give mE UpFrags U F***** Idiets
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBL5G83XUAAmq3a.jpg[/img]
thanks
viperit would offer a prize pot and incentive to win because of said prize pot
LOL good one
[quote=viper]
it would offer a prize pot and incentive to win because of said prize pot
[/quote]
LOL good one
resist the weebs
fold today
resist the weebs
fold today
viperMoist_PenguinThe question is what would an NA league of ETF2L offer over a TFCL or UGC.
over ugc, it would offer a prize pot and incentive to win because of said prize pot, considering league fees are a thing
over tfcl, i'm not for sure, because i don't even know about it, but i would go with etf2l simply for exposure because most, if not all na players know what etf2l is but very few are even aware of tfcl
While currently we do not have a prize pool, i understand players have issues with UGCs leadership. A prize pool would be possible if we had an entry fee however that is something that would have to be discussed.
The worry is that if we split the community in NA between multiple leagues it contributes even more to the decline rather than help.
[quote=viper][quote=Moist_Penguin]The question is what would an NA league of ETF2L offer over a TFCL or UGC.[/quote]
over ugc, it would offer a prize pot and incentive to win because of said prize pot, considering league fees are a thing
over tfcl, i'm not for sure, because i don't even know about it, but i would go with etf2l simply for exposure because most, if not all na players know what etf2l is but very few are even aware of tfcl
[/quote]
While currently we do not have a prize pool, i understand players have issues with UGCs leadership. A prize pool would be possible if we had an entry fee however that is something that would have to be discussed.
The worry is that if we split the community in NA between multiple leagues it contributes even more to the decline rather than help.