That is a sarcastic statement mocking the entire situation.

the thing is that pred and degu don't actually have remorse

fairly sure pred is a racist and he actually believes this shit

what people I consider pretty close friends say to me would be seen as homophobic in a public eye but it's fine by me, and because the interaction is between us it's up to them and me whether it's a bad interaction or not. I say it's all good because I know where it's from. What gives any of you the right to tell my friends how to interact with me on my behalf?

pretty high amount of euros in here acting prestige but are otherwise fine saying 'get raped fag' or hopping on the bandwagon to call people ugly. multiple on this page (e- previous page) have called me homophobic slurs but go on tf.tv Can't Believe You'd Say Rude Things. idiots

i'm no saint i've got nothing to say about people being rude in tf2, but stop with the fake shit, it's embarrassing

finally some good news

Get rekt.

Pred you posted cu@ in the i63 thread. I hope this is true, it would be interesting to see this online persona in the flesh

wait what did phorofor do? i swear im not trolling I genuinely don't know

imma beat his ass

edit: https://twitter.com/phorofor_/status/1026930269268389890
if this is misinformation then I apologise. I did not mean to spread lies

arekk called nursey a slur. He apologised but then phorophor PMd her more slurs

I hope this serial bigot "Pred" can get his ass kicked both IRL and ingame on LAN. I think only then would he learn his lesson.

So let's talk ETF2L. They tried to sweep the racism of some players under the rug because they didn't want to lose half the prem teams in playoffs apparently. It was lost in the shitstorm that is this thread but it's definitely something that needs to be talked about

With other platforms making statements I'm expecting ETF2L to do the same. So let's discuss change. I do not expect bans to be given out to Pred and Degu, but I would like to see clear rules because they're clearly not being enforced properly atm.

Let's not forget le epic joke of Degu being tagged as bin.ngr on Bin Black during a casted match this season.
Pred's always been known to be a racist. Don't think I've ever seen him say something that isn't racist/homophobic in twitch chat and he's known for shouting the n-word during pugs all the time. I doubt anyone (aside from his few remaining friends that think what he's doing is funny) will care if he's never allowed to play on pugchamp or officials

Also Degu is currently a TF2PL admin though I know people have been contacted about that so i don't expect that to last.

Just a quick note to say fuck anyone who's pretending this is difficult. "Ooh, are we going to ban anyone who says anything mean?" Everyone in this thread is capable of telling the difference between trash talk and discrimination, or you'd all have been fired/kicked out of school/beaten up repeatedly by now.

Banning them from etf2l is mostly up to the admins but i think should at least be banned for like a year. Most importantly, we need to show we aren't tolerant of behavior like this

This. Always this.

People concern trolling this nonsense can get in the sea.

"He has a different opinion than me, therefore concern troll."

Also to people thinking ETF2L shouldn't just ban whoever is racist/transphobic/homophobic. OZF bans players for such offenses. Has been mentioned multiple times in this thread. They're a smaller scene and they don't have an issue with it. ETF2L is a private org. They have every right to exclude people from their service based on their behavior. It will only improve the community.

I know multiple people who have uninstalled TF2 after the recent attacks on Nursey and Uberchain. They weren't competitive players but that's the point. This isn't something that won't reach further than the comp scene. It's already reaching out to its spectators and the casuals. It's already reaching outside of TF2 to other communities and social media. People are watching. Many now believe this community is no longer worth sticking around for. It hurts to hear "the entire TF2 community is trash" but I've heard it multiple times over the past couple of days and I don't blame them for thinking so. This has been allowed for too long. The decisions of the community within the next weeks will change the view of the entire playerbase and beyond towards us. So let's make sure we change it for the better.

This isn't just about Degu and Pred. Once the community has dealt with them there is still Uberchain's list that started all this. And the transphobia/homophobia/racism still within our community. This is the tip of the iceberg.
Mental and sexual abuse within our community shouldn't be taken lightly. She's not the only victim and their abusers are still out there. I hope they see what is happening to Pred and Degu right now. Because they're being treated nicely compared to what the community should do to the abusers if their names are ever revealed.

I'd like to remind everyone here that saying that "context doesn't matter" had a man in the UK facing jail for making a video of his dog doing a nazi salute: The context of which was getting an adorable creature owned by his girlfriend to perform a gesture associated with abhorrent acts in history - making a cute and adorable pug into a nazi. In case you didn't catch that, a man was found guilty of hate crimes... for trying to annoy his girlfriend?

The prison sentence was later reduced to an £800 fine but sets an extremely dangerous legal precedent - particularly as the UK doesn't have the protection the US constitution offers.

Now I'm well aware that we're talking about private entities and individuals in the case of this thread and not government oppression of speech, but the lesson is the slippery slope that follows from blanket banning of certain words and phrases, regardless of the situation they are used in. It is already turning into a witch hunt, albeit with the best of intentions, as others in this thread have noted. I won't even begin to comment on the issue of sexual assault as I feel that's been more than covered by everyone else in this thread.

Now I understand that I have a somewhat checkered past in this community so I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion just for making the following statements, but I feel that it is an extremely important and often-overlooked facet of such a discussion and could potentially be important to open-minded individuals.

While I cannot defend calling someone a racial epithet in a public space (regardless of race, I'm outraged for example at Sarah Jeong joining the editorial board of the New York Times after tweeting many choice remarks, such as the hashtag "CancelWhitePeople") this hysteria needs to stop. We all need to cool off and realise that yes, context is a huge factor to take into account. There's a key difference between jokes among friends and outright substituting racial epithets for rational arguments in a public space.

I've been called all sorts of race (and perceived class even though I'm poor lol) based epithets in real life for holding slightly-right-of-centre political opinions in an academic setting. When I had identity-based epithets thrown at me, I couldn't help but just ask myself about these people "What is wrong with you? What went wrong in your life to get to this point?" - you really do have to just acknowledge sometimes that people can just be fucked up. In cases such as that, there isn't really much option but to "grow a thicker skin" in response to things like that, so to speak.

Once again, I am not defending outright going to someone's twitter and trying to cause harm in response to an announcement without any rational arguments being presented whatsoever - I am simply trying to get everyone to stop fanning the flames of witch hunting a bunch of people like Thalash for using a word. A word with negative connotations, sure. A word that is used to harm, sure. But he literally provided you with context afterwards and people are still piling on him - garnering significant amounts of upvotes in the process, which is what worries me more than the opinions being written to be honest - it's the fact that they're so well-received.

This whole situation just reminds me of 1950s america where everyone thought that their neighbour was a communist; if two friends can't have a laugh together without fear of the TFTV thought police having someone in their mumble/discord listening in for certain words/phrases then I'm sorry but you're just as bad as the actual racists. It only serves to further radicalise people (especially younger ones as this is a gaming community), whether by the Streisand effect, thinking they can't speak freely amongst friends, or any other factors.

tl;dr: fuck actual racists, but if friends I've had for years can't have racial bants with me then you've got a far bigger problem than racism on your hands.

That's actually true, there is some evidence from social studies in the US that people who score higher in openness and agreeableness in personality tests tend to conglomerate in larger cities while those with the opposite traits tend to live in rural areas with less population density and greater hegemony. There's still some debate however to how much of a personality is genetic as opposed to environment but the consensus is that there is a genetic element to personality.

Fighting war with war? What makes you better human being then? Person, who wishes bad for others? Especially getting beaten? Wtf is this logic

dude shouldn't even be allowed at lan lmao

edit: why downfrag me? why let people who discriminate and are toxic go to lan? Just give them the leffen treatment and ban them from competition.

the same doublestandards a lot of other people in this thread share

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

which part of this says i can say gook on twitter?

free speech protects you from the government and that is it. nothing else. saying whatever you want on a video game is not "exercising your free speech right."

It's tough to tell if you are trolling or not because for any reasonable person there is a massive line in the sand between calling someone a "gook" and saying "lol ur trash kid"

the tf2 community is filled with freaks and scum. uberchain is a breath of fresh air compared to some of what this community has to offer. she's a genuine and sweet human being who i can never recall myself or anyone knowing ever having a bad experience with. abuse is a terrible thing and the mental strains he's caused are not to be looked pass. what he did goes far beyond problems that should remain behind closed doors, those aren't just problems with the two people ticking. i hope uberchain is doing alright and i'm sending my thoughts to her. even though uberchain probably isn't the type of person i would be talking to due to how different of people we probably are, I can't just act like she isn't a good person and hasn't done good for tf2 in a lot of ways, nor do I think anyone else can. also talking to her after the mess that tumblr vs. reddit season 2 was (not fault to her) was the only enjoyable experience i had during it.

lmao pred was never gonna go to lan

that's a good point, but at the same time freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. I can support free speech without saying i think they should be allowed to say whatever they want without getting punished.

All I can say is that I feel terribly sorry that Uberchain had to go through all of this. I don't understand what drives people to just mistreating somebody that fucking horribly and then believe that they had not done anything wrong in the end. It's sickening to see this kind of action being condoned at all. I get that online on the internet it's more of an anything goes situation and it's not best to try to get political because it always causes controversy, but this shit is just straight up fucked up and painful to both see and read. NOBODY deserves to get abused sexually, physically, mentally, etc. NOBODY. Especially not somebody like Uberchain. She has done so much to keep this game fucking afloat and apparently her overwhelming niceness makes her a fucking prime target for shit people to come and abuse it.

Fuck this community.

To come in on this censorship debate, I have to say that I wish for there to be a rule on how to speak in-game, call me a hypocrite for saying this, but I do want people to actually start getting punished for their disrespect, but only in the regard of how personal they get, or how bigoted they act. Healthy disrespect like saying "LMAO GET FUCKED BRO" is honestly fine, there's nothing truly disrespectful about it, but when people say shit like "kys nigger" it's not funny, and it's entirely gross to see. I want people to face the consequences of what they say. If you won't say it irl, don't bring it online. I get we're mostly anonymous here, but I want this to be more than just a community. I want us to be more like a family, because I fucking love this game and a lot of the people here, but after what I've read today I think I'm honestly done with this community's bullshit. I don't think I worded this exactly how I meant so I'm going to just put a TL;DR below that more or less represents what I would like personally.

TL;DR: I am personally disgusted at the actions done by certain people towards others like Uberchain, Tagg, Hellbent, etc. and I wish I could personally apologize to them all face to face. It's painful to see what malicious people can do (me included) and it's time we start to truly punish them for saying it. While not censoring these people, we should teach them to be more responsible for their actions by dishing out punishments for their discrimination. Show them that they can say whatever they want, but we can also do whatever we want to counteract it. It's not censorship, it's justice.

Fuck even my TL;DR needs a TL;DR. Sorry, I'm just fucking heated and it makes me type/talk a lot more.

http://www.annenbergclassroom.org/page/first-amendment
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment

I don't understand why people in this community can't just be nice to each other. I'm starting to realize why Valve hasn't helped this turn into a proper eSport.

Can't make anymore pages, carried on here: http://www.teamfortress.tv/49021/ban-pred-and-degu-part-2