Do you not realize how stupid this sounds? If something harmful has been happening that's literally an argument to have it stop.

I agree that people do probably care more because it's uberchain and because of that I think it's good that she called them out, maybe that will set a precedent as well for other people to step forward (as it did, which seems clear as daylight from the last 500 posts or so).

Imagine if it did, wouldn't you actually be able to speak up about it right now, now that people actually realize that this affects a load of people. Wouldn't you be actually glad someone actually spoke up?

If you think pred actually has any intention to seriously apologize, you're delusional.

Maybe etf2l isnt a place for people like pred.

Im not going to spend entire day posting messages what i really think about it because its pointless
You guys have your own head and you wont change your decision. We want to talk about it as a community but its not really happening.
I dont want to be mean or something i just wanted to say what i think about it.
Peace and love

The big thing I notice is that things go from a one time joke (which can be funny) to months being a meme. It grows old over time, and at one point, when it doesn't stop because it's just so set as a meme, you either end up just blocking and muting everyone who says it until you give no reaction; or you pop off and yell at them to piss off which results in being made fun of further. At least from my point of view, this is how it was handled when being a meme angered me too much. Some people are still blocked from months ago since they offer nothing other than these memes in conversation.

I definitely agree that the harassment definitely does drive people away from the community. It's why I'm a member of my current circlejerk, because people in it don't just meme me constantly.

we're literally talking about it as a community right now. you are literally doing exactly what you are saying won't happen.
Multiple leagues have now publicized their stances on harrasment. Sponsors have put their foot down on where they put their money, depending on said stances. People are coming out about their experiences, and skeletons are being dragged out the closet. And you want to stop this because..?

im not really apposed to the punishments for toxicity, but the part thats annoying is that there are so many people using this situation as a way to wipe their own slate clean and acting as if they have been an advocate of tf2 becoming a safe space for years.

Also the argument that credu's weapons are 'forgotten inside jokes' is so laughable when in this same thread people are bringing up old steam names as evidence of someone being racist which could also be a 'forgotten inside joke'.

Again, im not saying what pred and degu said is justifiable in any way, im just saying some of the reasoning behind other people getting a free pass for the same shit is so stupid.

much love kaido

he said he's fine with receiving the same punishment as their team

EDIT: also other teams that did something similar

they wont be punished because they apologized for credu

Geel said in part 1 of this post that he will not sponsor any event that does not have rules about players behavior. Many people has said that it will be harder to get new sponsors with a toxic community. But if ETF2L does nothing after Geel's anouncement they will probably loose a sponsor aswell. I understand very well that ETF2L would rather ban a guy for 2 months rather than loosing a sponsor, and making it harder to get new ones in the future.
I am not linked to ETF2L's administration in any way. I do not think sponsors is the only reason for the ban, but i think it might be a reason for ETF2L to give the punishment they did.

When sjw invade tf2 forum

Tbh I think all that really matters is that from now on there's a concerted effort for everyone to stamp out 'toxicity'.

No point arguing about past examples tbh. All that really matters is what happens from now on.

I'm so glad that this has come up. It's been a problem in our community for far too long for far too many people, including me. I'm happy that others have been brave enough to speak out and it's really encouraging to me, but I'm not sure if I'm ready yet to speak here about some of the harassment I've faced from some members of our community. Maybe I'll share eventually, but regardless, I hope that we are able to come to an agreement and stand in solidarity against toxicity. It's just common sense, and it will help us grow if we are open, friendly and inviting to all, new and old.

i need to type out a nerd essay to get +upfrags

Stop the damage control.

Your team uploaded a video about b4nny on your official youtube channel with the sole purpose to hurt his reputation and make him look bad. This is okay though? You playing victims and farming sympathy points despite the fact that you did the exact same thing to b4nny? I know he is controversial and I'm not a huge fan of him myself, but still you publishing this wall of text on how it has happened to you, how it has been a problem for years, how you actively tried to not be part of it, even though you were ALWAYS a part of it? And again, you try to make someone else look bad again by redirecting hate towards them in your statement. There was NEVER any need to mention nunya/bin in your post, but I guess it is fun to see some more heads roll.

https://imgur.com/a/RxyMCwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln51NrJG3sc

You are the very epitome of what is wrong with this community and this discussion. All this talk about professionalism and being a role model. You already harassed someone else on a LARGE scale (almost 14.000 people have seen the b4nny video), but someone else has done it to you and they are the devil now and are the fault for this game dying and more and more people walking away from it? I'm pretty sure people on your team participated in this thread and on the Degu & Pred hate, but you refuse to take responsibility for your teams actions? You all have done it at some point, but saying "but young, competitively-minded people are very easily sucked into the atmosphere that surrounds them" makes it all okay? Why is it not okay that Pred & Degu have done it? Because the victim was Uberchain? Do you think it is fair that there is a prize money deduction, but at the same time think that your team doesn't deserve punishment for the Credu thing, which is essentially the exact same situation?

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

This is a big joke and you know it.

shittalking b4nny, esp in response to how much shit b4nny has talked about them =/= calling him slurs

2014 ended 4 years ago

Please leave this forum

It's not harassment to call out other people's toxic behaviour or criticise people publicly.

It is harassment to call someone "ugly gook cunt" and endorsing other people who do this.

You are going through some serious mental gymnastics in order to justify your criticism, and it's not lending credit to your argument at all.

Not sure you even read his statement at all, that's the opposite of what he said.

So it's okay to make an entire video out of it? One in which they carefully cut together parts in an effort to ridicule him and make him look bad in front of the entire community? That is somehow not harassment, trying to make a big group of people hate one single individual purposefully? Isn't that essentially the same thing with the "bug" situation? Why is the video okay but the "meme" isn't, if both happen to ridicule the target? Also keep in mind that the video was posted on the official se7en channel, so how again is this professional?

You are going through some serious mental gymnastics if you really think harassment only starts with racism.
Also apparently you didn't read the full statement, because I quoted Kaidus at the end and I'll do it again just for you.

" I see no reason why there should be any need for further action against us or any other team."

Just because he stated earlier that they would accept punishment, doesn't mean they think they should be getting one.

I don't think harassment only starts with racism.

I also didn't interpret that statement as "we don't deserve a punishment".

EDIT: The purpose of me posting this is not to defend 7 which it might come off as. I just genuinely think you are comparing a bank robbery with someone shoplifting and it comes off as very insensitive.

not supporting harassing =/= being an sjw :popo:

T_T

b4nny massively reeing at a bad player while pretending to be Mr Friendly Help The Game And Noobs is hypocritical and the video points that out.
dont think its harassment but definitely very dumb that they post it on their Official Org youtube and pretend like the IM player in the video was new
also if etf2l want to posthumously ban for racism then credu definitely deserves some punishment

I guess it only starts when the victim is liked by the majority of the community or can you explain further? So why exactly is this video okay? It is certainly not criticizing b4nny the way it is structured and named.

The threat of having prize money removed and players banned is the only reason this has been addressed by kaidus in the first place. If he actually means it, and it's not just damage control, he would follow up and apply the prize deduction to his team voluntarily. Se7en has pretty much done the exact same thing, so why exactly do they deserve to not receive the same punishment in terms of bans and deductions? Because they apologized for it?

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i can guarantee that the 7 video did inspire quite a number of people to start to confront banny about his toxicity, which, giving banny's stubbornness to others' viewpoints (especially about himself), would have led to harassment since they would feel like banny isnt listening to their seemingly good-hearted words. (I worded that kinda terribly but I hope you understand)

Just because you call out someone for being bad, doesnt make you automatically good.

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Are you telling me that a 600+ post thread (2 threads actually) that has engulfed a large part of the comp tf2 community (and some casual scenes i.e. uncle dane etc.) cant be considered toxic? I feel like the actual meaning of toxic has been forgotten and is just being used as a substitute for being a dick. Just because a word has negative connotations does not mean it is always used in a negative way

The actual meaning of toxic is 'poisonous', i certainly feel like this website has been poisoned by this drama since all other discussions have been halted and its all anyone can talk about

Stalking behaviour, threats of violence, racist and sexist comments (regardless of gender/race) or otherwise severely insensitive comments with malicious intent, homophobic comments, transphobic comments, etc. It really doesn't matter who is the victim. The video was criticising b4nny's behaviour and not his person. I don't think se7en should have posted that video, but you've applied no nuance to the situation and you are comparing someone who got harassed unprovoked after opening up sexual abuse to someone who criticised a player for being toxic to another player. Do you think a shoplifter should get the same punishment as a bank robber?

I agree with you on when harassment starts, but you sadly still imply that the video is meant to criticize b4nny, when it is not. It is what you would categorize under "Stalking behavior" and "comment with mailicious intent". You don't release a video like that if you intend to criticize someone, it is not constructive, nothing, it is simply clips cut together, all b4nny clips in less favorable situations to show people "See this guy you like? He is a fucking asshole". Also remember the context, they had fat beef during that time and you surely don't criticize in a constructive manner when you are angry at someone else. Don't fool yourselves, I could take a rapper dissing another rapper and reduce that to "It's actually just criticism, chill bro"

B4nny video aside, what about the Credu situation? How is that any different other than that racism was applied indirectly instead of directly? Do you think apologizing just solves this problem? Saying "Sorry, we already have taken action and removed him from the roster, please dont punish us" makes this all okay? They obviously had no power over Credu, just like the punished team had no power over Pred, so do you think it is fair that one team gets off scot free while the other doesn't? How come Pred's entire team is punished, but all of Se7en might be left unpunished?
Do you think a bank robber should receive a perhaps lighter punishment just because he apologizes for it or has a good reputation within his community?

Stop with the strawmen, you're constantly assuming I have opinions I don't have. I'm done discussing with you.

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