the knockback idea is pretty good. extend it to all hitscan. god knows how aggravating it is to be stopped in the air by a noscoping sniper.

I think some of y'all are underestimating just how over the top some of your nerf ideas are

the goal shouldn't be to entirely neuter scout as a class, it should to be to eliminate the strategy where one scout gets 30% heals and runs around killing everyone for free with no strategy or nuance

hence why the medic movement speed change is #1

incorrect. Cut the balls off the little shit.

the medic speed increase inadvertently buffed the scout class.. and many of the balance recommendations I am seeing here will buff other classes at not only the scout’s expense, but all the others classes as well.. (sticky buff, reduced self-damage.. etc). That being said, I don’t agree with changing the dynamics of the scout class entirely.

another thing: I've seen a lot of newer players suggesting that the movement speed thing "created" the role of the pocket scout by contrasting 2019 tf2 with like 2010 when everyone was just much worse

by like 2013-4 pocket scout was pretty well established on almost every team, way before the movement speed buff. teams of that era had probably the most egalitarian heal spreads in tf2 history, it would be like demo and pocket 25%, pocket scout 19%, flank scout 16%, roamer 15% or some shit. if anything, the changes have stratified pocket and flank scout even more and basically fucked over the latter. that's why I stress that scout isn't OP, pocket scout is.

mustards saying the shit im trying to say

but i dont think it was just because people were much worse. the current attitude towards scout started after i49 when banny switched from demo to scout and thn was solidified when froyo was made which pressured scout mains to get better to try and get to that level

this shit is just the attitude towards the game. nothing mechanically had changed at all, but before i49 it was thought that soldier was a stronger class and i even think that some soldiers thought it embarrassing to lose a 1v1 to a scout in the same fashion some scouts see it embarrassing to lose a 1v1 to a demo in today's world.

mustardjehovahlord breathes tf2 and I'd genuinely love to have him on the dev team

Is it feasible that we could make a serverside promod or something that allows us to revert sticky-nerf and med-speedbuff?

ban winger

doesnt solve all of the problems at all ,but it has the advantage of not needing to mod the game for it to actually happen.
meds will still run around with scouts especially over flat terrain but suddenly scouts are punished fairly hard if they drop off their most dominant position

i forgot to say this on my post but i agree winger is fucking retarded

The problem isn't scout. The problem is that demo and soldier are very poorly balanced for the style of tf2 we play competitively. The game just wasn't designed around mostly exclusive dm classes 5cp/koth. To play soldier effectively *for the most part* you need to run gunboats which limits your clip to 4 rockets. In comparison a scout has 6 scatters and 12 pistol shots. A demo has 4 pipes and 8 sticks. Add on top of that to move around you have to expend part of your clip which often only leaves you with a couple of rockets to secure a kill. Demo and scouts have the luxury of beefing a few shots and still being able to frag. I would love to see some combination of lowering the base self damage that soldier/demo take so that they can be more mobile, make the gunboats take zero self damage and add an additional rocket, and maybe experiment with either base reload speed or perhaps gunboats would also offer increased reload speed.

I don't know why people get nostalgic about old stickies. Man I sure miss being able to just wave my mouse around like an idiot and just do an absurd amount of damage. Demo 100% needs to be buffed but I don't think old stickies or the current balance are particularly ideal.

Yea honestly this is it. While we're at it why not just remove air strafing in general so that the game is easier for people that can't aim.

Yea I agree the medigun speed update totally ruined the balance of the game but at the same time I also just don't understand how people have fun on medic considering how the class is designed/balanced.

I've never understood people drawing their ire on scout when we play a competitive game that is contingent on making it as dissimilar as possible from casual tf2. Which is a great thing!! Base tf2 just has so many wacky elements that don't add anything to the quakeish dm elements that most people in the scene like. But the reality is that it leads to a lot of imbalances which wouldn't exist if 6v6 as we play it was its own game and was balanced around competitive play. Scout feels just right in terms of gameplay. It's soldier and demo that feel lacking in terms of being able to compete in free flowing dm.

I can only dream of a day where someone makes a promod where soldier and demo are buffed and designed to be more mobile/aggressive.

break both his legs

medic: remove speedboost thing.
soldier: slightly increase movespeed to make them a little harder to hit and a little less rocket jump dependent.
demo: buff air det stickies.

can we just go play quake live

no moving medics as fast as him, gun does too much damage from mid-far range, 185 is too large of a buff

the people suggesting removing the ability to airstrafe from the class as well as other movement-restricting things make me wonder why they are playing tf2 if you don't like the movement. thats basically the reason anyone plays

If you think scout needs a nerf, you're shit at the game.
Killing scouts is easy, it's his unlocks that need balancing.

just shoot the scout 4Head

The basher and the ball aren't exactly game breaking lmfao.

yeah just double direct the scout with 185 that can double jump, shoot twice as fast as you, and run twice as fast as you. its simple and if you cant do it you're BAD !!

all stock scout is still the best class in the game :)

^LMAO i wonder what the highest level this creature has played at?

very carefully

Adjust the scouts ammo so he has to make his shots count or he runs out of ammo really fast.

the biggest problem is just that scout has the highest skill ceiling and the progression in skill just doesn't really line up

people tend to forget that it was only 5 years back that scouts started to actually leave the ground, when I first started (2009 boomer player) the attitude was 100% that double jumping was shit because it was predictable and you were just dead if you did that. I used to get told off by teamleaders for practicing my movement in surf even in 2012/3 because it was just seen as pointless
2015 there were still plenty of mid level scouts that couldn't even airstrafe in europe, which is completely unimaginable now but that is the reality. It wasn't even considered weird. That's not even to say how much aim has improved.

nowadays I'm shocked regularly the way scouts spin around or stop midair as the rocket comes out, while killing you in 3 shots maximum, purely because the difference between now and when I started is night and day.

meanwhile soldier, although everyone has of course gotten way better, the level of movement of everyone and especially medics and demos has gone up so severely. in about 2015 there were pretty much no medics outside of prem who could even really surf properly and a basic surf nowadays was seen as pretty special stuff
and although the rocket aim has of course gotten much better, the jumps haven't, purely because soldiers always gonna be limited by those 4 rockets. even back then forsaken was doing the speedshot bombs on gully, so because of that it just gets harder and harder to actually get onto the target to use the hard aim action, as the jump map jump progression just isn't real game viable most of the time

just my opinion though