^This
The story was supposed to be about an underdog team that crossed the ocean, thousands of miles away from home to defeat the best of the best that Europe has to offer. That story was undermined by the inclusion of Darn saying "I was drunk and smashed my keyboard," among other things.
For a years worth of work it really didn't tell that interesting of a story, and it certainly won't change the fact that TF2 never will be SC2- no matter how much the creators and everyone in this thread wants it to be.
^This
The story was supposed to be about an underdog team that crossed the ocean, thousands of miles away from home to defeat the best of the best that Europe has to offer. That story was undermined by the inclusion of Darn saying "I was drunk and smashed my keyboard," among other things.
For a years worth of work it really didn't tell that interesting of a story, and it certainly won't change the fact that TF2 never will be SC2- no matter how much the creators and everyone in this thread wants it to be.
causeOkay let me be very frank and very clear in this before I go into explaining it. This "documentary" was actually... kinda awful.
Let me explain what I mean. First off lets look at other documentaries. A good example to me that comes to mind is FRAG: The movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBncjnPP-ts which is still in my mind one of the greatest showings of esports documentaries to date (may be beaten by Free To Play once Valve releases it to the public) even though it focused mainly on the old Quake era. It shows this substance. Let's take into account what a documentary showcases. It showcases the event in question, and the timeline around it. Documentaries are telling you a story. This particular film does not tell you a factual story. It doesn't tell you anything related to the event really other then a select few players. And sure, you can tell a story through the players, however this was not accomplished at all either. You sat down the players and asked them generic questions and had small discussions. You didn't really touch on their gaming lives or experiences that got them up to that point. Their struggles, hardships, commitments, sacrifices to get to the i46 LAN, or to play TF2 on a professional level. That's how you tell a story through the players. Why are they there? What drives them? There was this casual atmosphere around the players that just struck me as odd because it seems to bleak for a "documentary". I also became confused on what this film is supposed to tell anyway. Are we talking about the players or the event? Or both? There was no real direction or subject to the film.
Sorry. I didn't like it especially since it was a year in the making and had so much "hype" behind it. Was expecting more. Was disappointed.
Oh god FRAG was horrible.
This is a documentary about an event. It is supposed to showcase actions at the event and the players. It is not supposed to be a story driven "They are the underdogs. but soon the entire world will know them. When 6 brave American heroes overcame their struggles to seize their destiny, in a world of corrupt gaming organizations, LAN drug cartells and nazi forum moderators."-in big red text cinema flick. How can you even ask for a story in a documentary? Do you even know what a documentary is?
It was supposed to showcase the awesome things that happened at i46 not tell some fabricated, hyped-up story. If that is what you expected, then you were mislead and probably intentionally misread all threads and posts for almost a year.
[quote=cause]Okay let me be very frank and very clear in this before I go into explaining it. This "documentary" was actually... kinda awful.
Let me explain what I mean. First off lets look at other documentaries. A good example to me that comes to mind is FRAG: The movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBncjnPP-ts which is still in my mind one of the greatest showings of esports documentaries to date (may be beaten by Free To Play once Valve releases it to the public) even though it focused mainly on the old Quake era. It shows this substance. Let's take into account what a documentary showcases. It showcases the event in question, and the timeline around it. Documentaries are telling you a story. This particular film does not tell you a factual story. It doesn't tell you anything related to the event really other then a select few players. And sure, you can tell a story through the players, however this was not accomplished at all either. You sat down the players and asked them generic questions and had small discussions. You didn't really touch on their gaming lives or experiences that got them up to that point. Their struggles, hardships, commitments, sacrifices to get to the i46 LAN, or to play TF2 on a professional level. That's how you tell a story through the players. Why are they there? What drives them? There was this casual atmosphere around the players that just struck me as odd because it seems to bleak for a "documentary". I also became confused on what this film is supposed to tell anyway. Are we talking about the players or the event? Or both? There was no real direction or subject to the film.
Sorry. I didn't like it especially since it was a year in the making and had so much "hype" behind it. Was expecting more. Was disappointed.[/quote]
Oh god FRAG was horrible.
This is a documentary about an event. It is supposed to showcase actions at the event and the players. It is not supposed to be a story driven "They are the underdogs. but soon the entire world will know them. When 6 brave American heroes overcame their struggles to seize their destiny, in a world of corrupt gaming organizations, LAN drug cartells and nazi forum moderators."-in big red text cinema flick. How can you even ask for a story in a documentary? Do you even know what a documentary is?
It was supposed to showcase the awesome things that happened at i46 not tell some fabricated, hyped-up story. If that is what you expected, then you were mislead and probably intentionally misread all threads and posts for almost a year.
Then don't label it a documentary when it's not a documentary. A documentary is about a factual event, but they didn't even touch on the event. All they did in 3/4th of the film is interview players. That's not documenting the event as you like to say it is.
And no it was not about the underdogs as I never said it was and I disagree with what mattertea said. It was about the fact they portrayed no aspects of a documentary. All they did was film a few interviews, the event and threw in some TF2 trivia. There's a difference between documenting an event and documentaries. They didn't provide the meat of what a documentary needs which is back story of the event, history, timelines. Events which keep the anticipation of the viewer going. This is why historical documentaries are always so facinating because you come out learning something with the documented data. You didn't learn anything here other then "America beat Europe at some LAN in Europe". You didn't connect with the players, the event, the atmosphere which is what makes documentaries great.
This was a very sub-par film to label it as a documentary. It documented nothing other then a few players opinions about each other and like I said, TF2 trivia with some event footage. I understand everyone here wants TF2 to be on par with things like other esport documentaries, however this is how you run an event documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqk9C1wVT0U. The player stories tie into the event. It keeps you watching for more. It gives you that dose of factual story that makes a documentary amazing. Not to mention there was NO game footage of the event? What? How can you make a documentary about a video game sporting event, and not show clips of the game? I get a more documentary feeling watching old Frag videos like the first minute of The Experiment than watching this 30 minute film because it shows footage of the game during the event.
Then don't label it a documentary when it's not a documentary. A documentary is about a factual event, but they didn't even touch on the event. All they did in 3/4th of the film is interview players. That's not documenting the event as you like to say it is.
And no it was not about the underdogs as I never said it was and I disagree with what mattertea said. It was about the fact they portrayed no aspects of a documentary. All they did was film a few interviews, the event and threw in some TF2 trivia. There's a difference between documenting an event and documentaries. They didn't provide the meat of what a documentary needs which is back story of the event, history, timelines. Events which keep the anticipation of the viewer going. This is why historical documentaries are always so facinating because you come out learning something with the documented data. You didn't learn anything here other then "America beat Europe at some LAN in Europe". You didn't connect with the players, the event, the atmosphere which is what makes documentaries great.
This was a very sub-par film to label it as a documentary. It documented nothing other then a few players opinions about each other and like I said, TF2 trivia with some event footage. I understand everyone here wants TF2 to be on par with things like other esport documentaries, however this is how you run an event documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqk9C1wVT0U. The player stories tie into the event. It keeps you watching for more. It gives you that dose of factual story that makes a documentary amazing. Not to mention there was NO game footage of the event? What? How can you make a documentary about a video game sporting event, and not show clips of the game? I get a more documentary feeling watching old Frag videos like the first minute of The Experiment than watching this 30 minute film because it shows footage of the game during the event.
the301stspartanIt was supposed to showcase the awesome things that happened at i46 not tell some fabricated, hyped-up story.
The only thing I remember that they showed happened at the LAN besides the matches was Darn's keyboard rage and the pictures with the prices
[quote=the301stspartan]It was supposed to showcase the awesome things that happened at i46 not tell some fabricated, hyped-up story.[/quote]
The only thing I remember that they showed happened at the LAN besides the matches was Darn's keyboard rage and the pictures with the prices
the301stspartan How can you even ask for a story in a documentary? Do you even know what a documentary is?
This is extremely incorrect. Every good documentary is going to have a story. It doesn't need to be as ridiculous as your example, but judging by the actual events that happened, "underdog Americans defeat top European teams" seems like a good starting point.
As an example- have you seen Jiro Dreams of Sushi? Jiro is the unanimous best sushi chef in the world, and since he is the title you'd think the doc would center completely around him. But it doesn't, the story becomes about his two sons, how they entered the business, and what they are going to do when Jiro retires/ dies.
You personally may think that it "showcased all the awesome things that happened at i46" because you know the backstory, you watched the streams, etc. But think about it from the perspective of somebody who knows nothing about TF2. What would they take away from it?
[quote=the301stspartan] How can you even ask for a story in a documentary? Do you even know what a documentary is?
[/quote]
This is extremely incorrect. Every good documentary is going to have a story. It doesn't need to be as ridiculous as your example, but judging by the actual events that happened, "underdog Americans defeat top European teams" seems like a good starting point.
As an example- have you seen Jiro Dreams of Sushi? Jiro is the unanimous best sushi chef in the world, and since he is the title you'd think the doc would center completely around him. But it doesn't, the story becomes about his two sons, how they entered the business, and what they are going to do when Jiro retires/ dies.
You personally may think that it "showcased all the awesome things that happened at i46" because you know the backstory, you watched the streams, etc. But think about it from the perspective of somebody who knows nothing about TF2. What would they take away from it?
cause
And no it was not about the underdogs as I never said it was and I disagree with what mattertea said.
How can you disagree with someone who is agreeing with you?
I am saying that IF it had a story like "Underdog USA teams mop the floor with Euro's elite" then it would have been a good doc', but the video didnt effectively tell that, or any other story, so it failed as a project.
The basic information about how to play TF2 was after a bunch of those interviews, which alienated anyone who didn't already know about the game, let-alone why they should care about these people. What is the point of the doc? To showcase a character, story, and event? Or to explain how a 6point CP video game is played? Mild schizophrenia here with the inclusion of that how-to part.
[quote=cause]
And no it was not about the underdogs as I never said it was and I disagree with what mattertea said. [/quote]
How can you disagree with someone who is agreeing with you?
I am saying that [i]IF[/i] it had a story like "Underdog USA teams mop the floor with Euro's elite" then it would have been a good doc', but the video didnt effectively tell that, or any other story, so it failed as a project.
The basic information about how to play TF2 was after a bunch of those interviews, which alienated anyone who didn't already know about the game, let-alone why they should care about these people. What is the point of the doc? To showcase a character, story, and event? Or to explain how a 6point CP video game is played? Mild schizophrenia here with the inclusion of that how-to part.
Oh if. Okay. I thought you were saying that's what I was implying by my post. Sorry about that misunderstanding.
Oh if. Okay. I thought you were saying that's what I was implying by my post. Sorry about that misunderstanding.
FYI - Multiplay linked the documentary on there i49 newsletter :)
FYI - Multiplay linked the documentary on there i49 newsletter :)
I honestly thought it was going to be about how we are all bros in the tf2 community (even if not true)and we came together, differences aside, and raised $20,000 and sent two teams to fuel our nerd fantasies of top euro teams vs top na teams. Instead we got this.
I honestly thought it was going to be about how we are all bros in the tf2 community (even if not true)and we came together, differences aside, and raised $20,000 and sent two teams to fuel our nerd fantasies of top euro teams vs top na teams. Instead we got this.
It seemed like they wanted to please the tf2 fans with tf2 stuff, interest people who dont play tf2 into playing tf2, explain competitive tf2 to those who pub and don't play comp yet, and by trying to do all these different things in 40 minutes the sequence of events was often strange, to me at least. That said, I still thought it was entertaining enough to watch and in general I liked it (but maybe just because I like comp tf2 already).
It seemed like they wanted to please the tf2 fans with tf2 stuff, interest people who dont play tf2 into playing tf2, explain competitive tf2 to those who pub and don't play comp yet, and by trying to do all these different things in 40 minutes the sequence of events was often strange, to me at least. That said, I still thought it was entertaining enough to watch and in general I liked it (but maybe just because I like comp tf2 already).
Is it me or are pages 2-6 comments totally different than page 7? Same movie...
Is it me or are pages 2-6 comments totally different than page 7? Same movie...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/esF0ekd.jpg[/img]
I honestly thought it was going to be about how we are all bros in the tf2 community (even if not true)and we came together, differences aside, and raised $20,000 and sent two teams to fuel our nerd fantasies of top euro teams vs top na teams. Instead we got this.
How would we have shot that storyline without major resources allowing us to go and interview people around the country about TF2? We barely had 3 days at the event to film. We were definitely limited by that.
...
Sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy it Cause, but I don't really have much I can say to you. We're interested in hearing feedback and critiques, but it's pointless to argue about how much we "documented" and whether or not that makes us a "documentary" or a series of interviews. Documentary is a genre and that's the best way to classify our film.
Always enjoy talking film theory.
Wait till the "Free to Play" documentary from Valve about TI1. That's a much more proper documentary and the difference between the amount of resources available to eXtv and Valve is very apparent. Was awesome, wish we could have accomplished something closer to that, but it was difficult given our constraints.
[quote]I honestly thought it was going to be about how we are all bros in the tf2 community (even if not true)and we came together, differences aside, and raised $20,000 and sent two teams to fuel our nerd fantasies of top euro teams vs top na teams. Instead we got this.[/quote]
How would we have shot that storyline without major resources allowing us to go and interview people around the country about TF2? We barely had 3 days at the event to film. We were definitely limited by that.
...
Sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy it Cause, but I don't really have much I can say to you. We're interested in hearing feedback and critiques, but it's pointless to argue about how much we "documented" and whether or not that makes us a "documentary" or a series of interviews. Documentary is a genre and that's the best way to classify our film.
Always enjoy talking film theory.
Wait till the "Free to Play" documentary from Valve about TI1. That's a much more proper documentary and the difference between the amount of resources available to eXtv and Valve is very apparent. Was awesome, wish we could have accomplished something closer to that, but it was difficult given our constraints.
Don't I wish we could have shot more.
It is easier said than done, and it's likey we'd do a much better job on our second try. What you have here is literally the best we could do at the time.
The money from the fundraiser was not spent on anything concerning the documentary, apart from one thing. The accomodations for the four Extv guys, which were dorm rooms during the summer break actually. We got press tickets for the i46 because of our intentions to film the documentary and do shoutcasting(Jeff and Eric only obviously).
If someone interested, here's what we used:
1 x $300 Sony camera to film everything. Qun shot some more footage which we used, which was a nice surprise, but since we only had one sound recording rig, we effectively had one crew.
A Sound Devices 722 sound recorder, a shotgun mic on a boom pole and a handheld vocal mic. This was actually the only professional-grade equipment we had I might add. And we only had that because it was my own equipment that I use for my work.
We shot stuff for three days, as often and as long as we could, limited primarily by availability of the people we interviewed and naturally our own experience in shooting events and interviews. Many of the players arrived before we did. We would have loved to have them shoot stuff of their trip and how things are going, but such is life in the no budget lane.
We didn't shoot 300 hours of material(like the Indie Game film), have professional gear and multiple crews who operated with no time limits(Valve) or were highly experienced film makers. We winged it quite well considering our level of experience and free time to edit and produce it(little to none). I edit, design and mix sound for a living, but just like Luc, Jeff, Eric and anyone else part of this production, there are jobs and lives taking up our time in which film making is a hobby, not a full time job.
That said, we would do things a little differently now. More planning, hopefully with more (any)money, so players could perhaps film themselves during their trip for example. Everyone with a camera, a professional preamp and two mics in hand so we can shoot multiple angles, interview more people and document the general excitement around the event.
But we only had one camera and one sound rig, and were basically making it up as we went along with a general idea of what we wanted to achieve. And based on those goals we did ok, and we'll get much better next time.
Yeah, you're right, it's not a great film. It's a short film about some of the things that went on at the i46 tournament, and it focused mainly on the American TF2 players coming over for the first time, and what European players thought about it. This even includes the couple after the Grand Finals.
Btw, here's a little fun from the Kritzkast room at the i46. I recorded two people performing "Hey Soul Sister" in the middle of everyone buggering about. I wish we could have used it in the documentary, but I guess the record label or artist that wrote the song would have slammed us or something.
http://soundcloud.com/airon-extv/hey-soul-sister-i46
And keep the feedback coming, keeping in mind the scope of this film. Ideas are most welcome, since I hope it'll at least inspire people to shoot their own little stories.
Don't I wish we could have shot more.
It is easier said than done, and it's likey we'd do a much better job on our second try. What you have here is literally the best we could do at the time.
The money from the fundraiser was not spent on anything concerning the documentary, apart from one thing. The accomodations for the four Extv guys, which were dorm rooms during the summer break actually. We got press tickets for the i46 because of our intentions to film the documentary and do shoutcasting(Jeff and Eric only obviously).
If someone interested, here's what we used:
1 x $300 Sony camera to film everything. Qun shot some more footage which we used, which was a nice surprise, but since we only had one sound recording rig, we effectively had one crew.
A Sound Devices 722 sound recorder, a shotgun mic on a boom pole and a handheld vocal mic. This was actually the only professional-grade equipment we had I might add. And we only had that because it was my own equipment that I use for my work.
We shot stuff for three days, as often and as long as we could, limited primarily by availability of the people we interviewed and naturally our own experience in shooting events and interviews. Many of the players arrived before we did. We would have loved to have them shoot stuff of their trip and how things are going, but such is life in the no budget lane.
We didn't shoot 300 hours of material(like the Indie Game film), have professional gear and multiple crews who operated with no time limits(Valve) or were highly experienced film makers. We winged it quite well considering our level of experience and free time to edit and produce it(little to none). I edit, design and mix sound for a living, but just like Luc, Jeff, Eric and anyone else part of this production, there are jobs and lives taking up our time in which film making is a hobby, not a full time job.
That said, we would do things a little differently now. More planning, hopefully with more (any)money, so players could perhaps film themselves during their trip for example. Everyone with a camera, a professional preamp and two mics in hand so we can shoot multiple angles, interview more people and document the general excitement around the event.
But we only had one camera and one sound rig, and were basically making it up as we went along with a general idea of what we wanted to achieve. And based on those goals we did ok, and we'll get much better next time.
Yeah, you're right, it's not a great film. It's a short film about some of the things that went on at the i46 tournament, and it focused mainly on the American TF2 players coming over for the first time, and what European players thought about it. This even includes the couple after the Grand Finals.
Btw, here's a little fun from the Kritzkast room at the i46. I recorded two people performing "Hey Soul Sister" in the middle of everyone buggering about. I wish we could have used it in the documentary, but I guess the record label or artist that wrote the song would have slammed us or something.
http://soundcloud.com/airon-extv/hey-soul-sister-i46
And keep the feedback coming, keeping in mind the scope of this film. Ideas are most welcome, since I hope it'll at least inspire people to shoot their own little stories.
I thought the documentary was really good, but that it would have benefited from a lot more minutes considering the scope of it. I hope for a release of unused material and would definately pay for you doing an i49 documentary as well.
I thought the documentary was really good, but that it would have benefited from a lot more minutes considering the scope of it. I hope for a release of unused material and would definately pay for you doing an i49 documentary as well.
causeLet me explain what I mean. First off lets look at other documentaries. A good example to me that comes to mind is FRAG: The movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBncjnPP-ts which is still in my mind one of the greatest showings of esports documentaries to date (may be beaten by Free To Play once Valve releases it to the public) even though it focused mainly on the old Quake era.
Just watched that documentary. I must say, 1:00:48......
[quote=cause]
Let me explain what I mean. First off lets look at other documentaries. A good example to me that comes to mind is FRAG: The movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBncjnPP-ts which is still in my mind one of the greatest showings of esports documentaries to date (may be beaten by Free To Play once Valve releases it to the public) even though it focused mainly on the old Quake era. [/quote]
Just watched that documentary. I must say, 1:00:48......
Airon
Btw, here's a little fun from the Kritzkast room at the i46. I recorded two people performing "Hey Soul Sister" in the middle of everyone buggering about. I wish we could have used it in the documentary, but I guess the record label or artist that wrote the song would have slammed us or something.
http://soundcloud.com/airon-extv/hey-soul-sister-i46
:O That's absolutely beautiful! Too bad it couldn't make it in, but I'm glad you were able to share it with us! I'm looking forward to all additional extras.
[quote=Airon]
Btw, here's a little fun from the Kritzkast room at the i46. I recorded two people performing "Hey Soul Sister" in the middle of everyone buggering about. I wish we could have used it in the documentary, but I guess the record label or artist that wrote the song would have slammed us or something.
http://soundcloud.com/airon-extv/hey-soul-sister-i46
[/quote]
:O That's absolutely beautiful! Too bad it couldn't make it in, but I'm glad you were able to share it with us! I'm looking forward to all additional extras.
Loved the documentary, thought you guys did a great job showcasing the competitive community. Special thanks to the whole team for all their hard work and making it available for FREE.
I have some hopefully constructive criticisms, read into it what you will. The doc started kinda awkwardly, a quick 10-second montage followed by eXtine talking about the event hall. Maybe the narrator setting up i46, why it was notable for TF2, etc would've been a better intro. I wish there was more gameplay, especially to give a taste to the large TF2 community that doesn't know anything about comp. The first real gameplay was shown 22 minutes into the doc. There were lots of opportunities to show in-game action with voiceovers of the players describing it. There were some inconsistencies with the presentation. Some players got the player profile freeze frame but some didn't. I'm not sure if eXtine was supposed to be the main interviewer or not. Sal became narrator towards the end, etc. But the big thing like someone else mentioned was that there was no overarching theme. Like what was this doc about, everything comp TF2, or the American teams' journey, or just i46. I know I wrote a lot and it seems like I'm being negative, but I really did like the documentary! Just wanted to share my thoughts.
Side note: I thought it was interesting how numlocked said most EU players treat that LAN as an occasion to party but the Americans came over completely focused on winning. I wonder if the mentality of the top EU teams has changed for i49. I heard Epsilon apparently put their team together specifically to beat the Americans but what about the others?
Loved the documentary, thought you guys did a great job showcasing the competitive community. Special thanks to the whole team for all their hard work and making it available for FREE.
I have some hopefully constructive criticisms, read into it what you will. The doc started kinda awkwardly, a quick 10-second montage followed by eXtine talking about the event hall. Maybe the narrator setting up i46, why it was notable for TF2, etc would've been a better intro. I wish there was more gameplay, especially to give a taste to the large TF2 community that doesn't know anything about comp. The first real gameplay was shown 22 minutes into the doc. There were lots of opportunities to show in-game action with voiceovers of the players describing it. There were some inconsistencies with the presentation. Some players got the player profile freeze frame but some didn't. I'm not sure if eXtine was supposed to be the main interviewer or not. Sal became narrator towards the end, etc. But the big thing like someone else mentioned was that there was no overarching theme. Like what was this doc about, everything comp TF2, or the American teams' journey, or just i46. I know I wrote a lot and it seems like I'm being negative, but I really did like the documentary! Just wanted to share my thoughts.
Side note: I thought it was interesting how numlocked said most EU players treat that LAN as an occasion to party but the Americans came over completely focused on winning. I wonder if the mentality of the top EU teams has changed for i49. I heard Epsilon apparently put their team together specifically to beat the Americans but what about the others?
Looking foward to i49 documentary in 2020 :D
Looking foward to i49 documentary in 2020 :D
Is it me or are pages 2-6 comments totally different than page 7? Same movie...
My bad.
How would we have shot that storyline without major resources allowing us to go and interview people around the country about TF2? We barely had 3 days at the event to film. We were definitely limited by that.
Filmed them walking around the event? Showing the matches and their reactions? Touring where they were staying? Asking them questions about their ambition that drives them to participate in this event? Etc. Out of the entire film, there was only like 4 minutes of actual game footage related to the event. The other 26 minutes were interviews, and interviews, and more interviews with most of the content from that being really bland.
And if you were so limited, and you knew you had such little to work with, why was it such a "project" in the first place? That's like going to your teacher when your book report was due and saying "sorry teach, I didn't do enough research to write 4 pages so I only wrote 2" with the teacher responding "well then why did you accept that one if you could not complete it with the required 4" when 4 is the required or standard for the said report to make it decent or acceptable. And I do believe resources help to make a film great by giving more room to work with, however in no way does more resources mean a better film. You can throw money on a pile of horse feces, and it's still horse feces just with some extra green on it (Not calling this film horse shit, but I just love using comparisons if you haven't picked that up yet).
Wait till the "Free to Play" documentary from Valve about TI1. That's a much more proper documentary and the difference between the amount of resources available to eXtv and Valve is very apparent. Was awesome, wish we could have accomplished something closer to that, but it was difficult given our constraints.
I guess I shouldn't have used Free to Play as the comparison in the first place since it's a documentary on the lives of 3 professional Dota players, and not so much on one particular event, even though TI1 is tied into it. However I still believe the documentary on the TI2 event in my second post is still relevant. Sure, Valve has all the footage and angles to make such a high quality professional film, but honestly all I meant is the way they tied in the players, and the game. You seemed to not do this here. One minute Ruwin is on talking about how Pyyyour is his best buddy, and the next Pyyyour is talking about his "internet friends". How does this tie into the event at all? It's like all you asked them was "what do you think of this person?". You didn't even ask them how they got into competitive TF2, how they manage their free time, etc etc etc. Good real questions that a viewer could then bond with the players while they play in this Lan event. People who aren't a part of TF2 could then see what these players go through for their passion at this event and would like to dip their toe in TF2 comp. Anyone outside of our little bubble of TF2, or arguably outside of TF.TV will not get this film at all.
Next time, perhaps we could see where our stars stayed, how was their flight, meeting them in the airport. What's the story of each character of the most prominent teams in the european scene and the history of the NA players. 30 minutes of only b4nny, couldn't hurt (seriously).
There's a lot of things you can do, like interview the managers of insomnia, get deep in the TF2. Asking players "Why is the community so awesome and yet TF2 isn't like starcraft 2?" "Why we don't need TF2 being like starcraft 2?" "What differences tf2 community from csgo community" "Predictions?" "What gear do you use?" "How they got into competitive". Or maybe adding more narration, i would like to see the players being treated as animals in their habitats (NatGeo style).
I liked the documentary, but i felt it too short. Like it wasn't on your head to make the documentary in the first place and you had a lot of material and then decided to make the documentary because why not. This time you have the australian scene, so we the donors and community would like to have a record of this event, and we trust you to make it an extraordinary documentary.
This^
We didn't shoot 300 hours of material(like the Indie Game film), have professional gear and multiple crews who operated with no time limits(Valve) or were highly experienced film makers. We winged it quite well considering our level of experience and free time to edit and produce it(little to none). I edit, design and mix sound for a living, but just like Luc, Jeff, Eric and anyone else part of this production, there are jobs and lives taking up our time in which film making is a hobby, not a full time job.
"Winged it" implies going in without experience. So you can't really wing something well when comparing it to going in knowing what you're doing. You can wing a presentation yes, however you will always do better at that same presentation if you don't wing it.
Why did you push a full film then if you were just winging it? What was the goal? As the quote above this one states, it just looks like you guys got interviews then just randomly decided to piece it all together and slam a title on it to make it look more official. We as the viewers don't set the bar for a film, the people making the film do. If you would've just released a video like this and it was just interviews of players at the event and there wasn't really anything else with a simple "here you go guys sorry it took so long to get these interviews from i46 to you", then I wouldn't have any fault in it. But the way this film was pitched to us the last year and how much of a cool thing it was going to be, in other words a hype train, it really became lack luster when it came out and you're sitting there watching a year of anticipation and hype slowly drain from you. Where did that year of editing go towards? The opening? The diagrams? Surely it doesn't take a year for someone to piece a few videos together in Sony Vegas (example). Yes, you have lives I respect that but it seems like at this point, that is being used as more of an excuse rather than an actual liable reasoning to why there was so much of a higher standard set here only to be dropped way down especially when it's the result of a year's work and effort...
Maybe I'm just expecting too much? I don't know.
[quote]Is it me or are pages 2-6 comments totally different than page 7? Same movie...[/quote]
My bad.
[quote]How would we have shot that storyline without major resources allowing us to go and interview people around the country about TF2? We barely had 3 days at the event to film. We were definitely limited by that.[/quote]
Filmed them walking around the event? Showing the matches and their reactions? Touring where they were staying? Asking them questions about their ambition that drives them to participate in this event? Etc. Out of the entire film, there was only like 4 minutes of actual game footage related to the event. The other 26 minutes were interviews, and interviews, and more interviews with most of the content from that being really bland.
And if you were so limited, and you knew you had such little to work with, why was it such a "project" in the first place? That's like going to your teacher when your book report was due and saying "sorry teach, I didn't do enough research to write 4 pages so I only wrote 2" with the teacher responding "well then why did you accept that one if you could not complete it with the required 4" when 4 is the required or standard for the said report to make it decent or acceptable. And I do believe resources help to make a film great by giving more room to work with, however in no way does more resources mean a better film. You can throw money on a pile of horse feces, and it's still horse feces just with some extra green on it (Not calling this film horse shit, but I just love using comparisons if you haven't picked that up yet).
[quote]Wait till the "Free to Play" documentary from Valve about TI1. That's a much more proper documentary and the difference between the amount of resources available to eXtv and Valve is very apparent. Was awesome, wish we could have accomplished something closer to that, but it was difficult given our constraints.[/quote]
I guess I shouldn't have used Free to Play as the comparison in the first place since it's a documentary on the lives of 3 professional Dota players, and not so much on one particular event, even though TI1 is tied into it. However I still believe the documentary on the TI2 event in my second post is still relevant. Sure, Valve has all the footage and angles to make such a high quality professional film, but honestly all I meant is the way they tied in the players, and the game. You seemed to not do this here. One minute Ruwin is on talking about how Pyyyour is his best buddy, and the next Pyyyour is talking about his "internet friends". How does this tie into the event at all? It's like all you asked them was "what do you think of this person?". You didn't even ask them how they got into competitive TF2, how they manage their free time, etc etc etc. Good real questions that a viewer could then bond with the players while they play in this Lan event. People who aren't a part of TF2 could then see what these players go through for their passion at this event and would like to dip their toe in TF2 comp. Anyone outside of our little bubble of TF2, or arguably outside of TF.TV will not get this film at all.
[quote]Next time, perhaps we could see where our stars stayed, how was their flight, meeting them in the airport. What's the story of each character of the most prominent teams in the european scene and the history of the NA players. 30 minutes of only b4nny, couldn't hurt (seriously).
There's a lot of things you can do, like interview the managers of insomnia, get deep in the TF2. Asking players "Why is the community so awesome and yet TF2 isn't like starcraft 2?" "Why we don't need TF2 being like starcraft 2?" "What differences tf2 community from csgo community" "Predictions?" "What gear do you use?" "How they got into competitive". Or maybe adding more narration, i would like to see the players being treated as animals in their habitats (NatGeo style).
I liked the documentary, but i felt it too short. Like it wasn't on your head to make the documentary in the first place and you had a lot of material and then decided to make the documentary because why not. This time you have the australian scene, so we the donors and community would like to have a record of this event, and we trust you to make it an extraordinary documentary.[/quote]
This^
[quote]We didn't shoot 300 hours of material(like the Indie Game film), have professional gear and multiple crews who operated with no time limits(Valve) or were highly experienced film makers. [b]We winged it quite well[/b] considering our level of experience and free time to edit and produce it(little to none). I edit, design and mix sound for a living, but just like Luc, Jeff, Eric and anyone else part of this production, there are jobs and lives taking up our time in which film making is a hobby, not a full time job.[/quote]
"Winged it" implies going in without experience. So you can't really wing something well when comparing it to going in knowing what you're doing. You can wing a presentation yes, however you will always do better at that same presentation if you don't wing it.
Why did you push a full film then if you were just winging it? What was the goal? As the quote above this one states, it just looks like you guys got interviews then just randomly decided to piece it all together and slam a title on it to make it look more official. We as the viewers don't set the bar for a film, the people making the film do. If you would've just released a video like this and it was just interviews of players at the event and there wasn't really anything else with a simple "here you go guys sorry it took so long to get these interviews from i46 to you", then I wouldn't have any fault in it. But the way this film was pitched to us the last year and how much of a cool thing it was going to be, in other words a hype train, it really became lack luster when it came out and you're sitting there watching a year of anticipation and hype slowly drain from you. Where did that year of editing go towards? The opening? The diagrams? Surely it doesn't take a year for someone to piece a few videos together in Sony Vegas (example). Yes, you have lives I respect that but it seems like at this point, that is being used as more of an excuse rather than an actual liable reasoning to why there was so much of a higher standard set here only to be dropped way down especially when it's the result of a year's work and effort...
Maybe I'm just expecting too much? I don't know.
idk if it's been said already, but the documentary just got a news post http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=11264
idk if it's been said already, but the documentary just got a news post http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=11264
the documentary was really overhyped; the hype around it before the event wasn't much. like tbh i feel like the fact that people talked about it for a year raised people's (including cause's presumably) expectations. like it wouldn't surprise me if the game plan of extv was to go to england and film shit, get interviews and then just put it together to make a documentary.
the documentary was really overhyped; the hype around it before the event wasn't much. like tbh i feel like the fact that people talked about it for a year raised people's (including cause's presumably) expectations. like it wouldn't surprise me if the game plan of extv was to go to england and film shit, get interviews and then just put it together to make a documentary.
You guys will fucking argue over anything.
You guys will fucking argue over anything.
testifyYou guys will fucking argue over anything.
http://i.imgur.com/Srs6IJM.jpg
Show Content
Including this post...
BUT in all seriousness, it was a pretty good first attempt at a documentary I thought. Certainly a helluva lot better than what I would've been able to do in their position.
[quote=testify]You guys will fucking argue over anything.[/quote]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Srs6IJM.jpg[/img]
[spoiler]Including this post...[/spoiler]
BUT in all seriousness, it was a pretty good first attempt at a documentary I thought. Certainly a helluva lot better than what I would've been able to do in their position.
Dear eXtv crew, I loved the documentary and I would donate towards the making of another one for i49 if you consider everything that could've been done better and that has been discussed in this thread.
Dear eXtv crew, I loved the documentary and I would donate towards the making of another one for i49 if you consider everything that could've been done better and that has been discussed in this thread.
We wish and hope we would be attending, but none of us will be able to.
That job falls to the folks who are actually there. From what I know at least three players from last years American teams will attend. B4nny, Cyzer and Shade. Does someone know whether Ruwin is going or not?
Vanilla TV will be broadcasting again. I hope they have a couple of cameras there to catch some interviews, and manage to share those videos promptly. All it took for Salamancer and Extine was a small Flip recorder and the Macbook I had(inbuilt camera and decent mic). And of course there's the Kritzkast folks, who are always a bag of fun with interviews and a great mood in general.
Perhaps we can collect all the footage from the event and compile it in to a little film in a similar fashion. I'd certainly be interested in that, and will try to follow the action on the weekend.
We wish and hope we would be attending, but none of us will be able to.
That job falls to the folks who are actually there. From what I know at least three players from last years American teams will attend. B4nny, Cyzer and Shade. Does someone know whether Ruwin is going or not?
Vanilla TV will be broadcasting again. I hope they have a couple of cameras there to catch some interviews, and manage to share those videos promptly. All it took for Salamancer and Extine was a small Flip recorder and the Macbook I had(inbuilt camera and decent mic). And of course there's the Kritzkast folks, who are always a bag of fun with interviews and a great mood in general.
Perhaps we can collect all the footage from the event and compile it in to a little film in a similar fashion. I'd certainly be interested in that, and will try to follow the action on the weekend.
Wow so many whiners.
I for one enjoyed watching it. Thanks guys!
Wow so many whiners.
I for one enjoyed watching it. Thanks guys!