I didn't have the chance to watch that much, I did see the grand finals and thought it worked really well.
I played 1 mix with the new ruleset personally didn't notice the change that much since it went to 5 - 0 something like that.
It felt a lot more faster paced (especially in the Fullerton LAN) and made the game a lot more exciting to watch because there was such a rush to get that one last cap in X amount of seconds.

If we'd get a unified ruleset it also like to see a mix of the RGL and ETF2L ruleset, like allowing detonator and maybe not allowing scorch shot quickies as example.

Would love to play more with this ruleset.

https://i.imgur.com/JKwVG8C.png

fun to play fun to watch
only critique when i played it was 3 was a little too short imo but 5 looks like it's a lot better
also for rgl players there's a post season survey where it asks about the testing of it so go vote please :)

https://i.imgur.com/4BWuWyN.png

I feel like the 5 minute round timer has a counter-intuitive effect than what is intended. It's very appealing for a team that is stuck on last to just do nothing and hold for the 5 minutes, especially on sunshine/gran/snake which is very cozy. It's also not worth the pushing team giving a full commit when the timer is running low because you either give the team on last enough of an advantage to push or they just choose not to push and go next mid.

sidenote: I don't think any value for the roundtimer will fix stalemates because the timer isn't what causes them in the first place!. It's because the game of tf2 is so defender oriented and the maps don't conpensate for that. I learnt this from my ex-teammates(kaptain, stark and thalash)

In terms of the wincondition I just think we should have winlimit 5 as standard. Maybe a windifference of 2 is ok but windifference of 5 is pointless. The infinite overtime does allow for more comeback potential and even won us a game however I think flick put it really well when he said 'you're not gaining rounds to win you're gaining rounds so when the overtime kicks in its harder for the other team to win'. I think we should just have mp_winlimit 5 and a gg plugin if anybody really cares about garbage time - if you can't mathematically win you just deserve to lose and that's the nature of a lot of sports already.

From a specators view: I think the win limit and round timer are perfect. However, the continious overtime can get pretty fatiguing to watch. Games can last for so long, and I feel a team that is winning for the majority of the match should be rewarded for that.

The five minute round timer was probably the best feature in this cup and should be considered for the normal ETF2L rule set. Contrary to domos point I believe that it actually offers a lot of much needed comeback potential on maps like Sunshine and Snakewater. These maps are extremely attacker favored to the point where a 6v4 push out of last from the defenders perspective is still a risky fight, assuming the other team knows what they are doing. Domo isn't wrong when he said that holding last for 5 minutes will be very appealing on a smaller round timer: but after having played with Josh, Nubbi and Silentes the past few seasons I believe that the game just offers more tools for attacking than defending, teams just haven't realized it yet.

For the overtime, I think it needs more testing and adjusting. I simply don't see a reason to extend the game past the regular 30 minutes if the score is 4-0 or even 4-1. If you concede this many rounds I believe there is no reason to offer the opportunity to come back, whereas in the prem grand finals this season it would've made sense because the games were close and the momentum shifted back and forth.

there is no reason not to use winlimit 5.
round reset timer is debatable, atm i dont think im a fan but wouldnt mind testing it more to see how it goes.

infinite overtime is really dumb, as gaz said it extends games that are already essentially over for no reason, plus having no upper bound timelimit means it can go forever (remember old golden cap format, except worse bc u can have multiple rounds of that). imo only activate overtime if the game is close (within 1 round) and have a maximum time on it like golden cap has now.

Not as pertinent to the global ruleset discussion but for NA ruleset, I like the two halves + golden cap ruleset a lot better than having single halves that can be 45 mins or longer, it's just deteriorating and makes more sense to let players have a break in the middle and re-strategize. Breaks between golden cap are nice as well, sure teams can pause and take a break but that doesn't happen in practice. The extended 'comeback time' functions pretty much the same as half times, but doesn't give players a break and in my experience can be pretty exhausting on LAN and in scrims pre-lan. I may be biased as medic requires a lot more concentration and you can never let your guard down, so it feels a lot longer, but I think it applies for every class.

Of course for playoffs and tournaments there needs to be some time constraints but for RGL regular season for example I would much prefer to try the shorter round timer with the existing 2 halves + golden cap ruleset. For spectators I feel like it's also simpler, you know each half is going to be 30 minutes and then the golden cap is the overtime, having an overtime with multiple points would be a bit confusing (and would lead to very long matches if combined with the two halves system)

TL;DR

• Timelimit 30, Winlimit 5, and Round Timer 5 should be implemented by all leagues/tournaments ASAP
  
• The impact of Continuous Overtime was not as severe on scheduling as planned, but an indefinite match time for all standard matches is very risky in time-sensitive competitions.
  
• Continuous Overtime should replace Golden Cap

I think that the viewpoints of players and spectators are very important, yet I would like to give my feedback based as an organiser/TA.

I believe that we should be playing the same game, regardless of whether its a PUG, Official, League or LAN. It's been something I've advocated for a while now and so that I why I was very keen to help admin this Unity Cup. So I'll quickly put down my thoughts about the ruleset.

Short thoughts:

• There is no reason that everyone shouldn't be using Winlimit 5, leagues and tournaments should make this change ASAP. Windifference is fine, but at the point where WD would come into play Winlimit does that far easier and much quicker.
  
• Leagues and tournaments should use Round Timer 5, theres still some debate on it but I think that it is an improvement on the game by removing 10min stalemates. In the vast majority of settings round timer has no impact (on average, rounds in the Invite Groups & Playoffs Bracket lasted around 5 minutes total) and in the cases where it does I'd imagine teams would be stalemating regardless of whether its 10 or 5 minutes, but that's just me.
  
• A combination of Winlimit 5, Timelimit 30, and Round Timer 5 should be the standard across all leagues in all regions, and this should be done soon.

Continuous Overtime
The more complicated part of this discussion from a TA/Organiser point is the use of the continuous overtime (+1 round) rule. For LAN and Weekend Cup competitions, like iSeries and Community Clash we have blocked out 1 hour for a BO1 and then a 15 minute 'break'. This is incredibly generous and in 90% of cases most matches end way before the next round is due which tends to create a fair amount of downtime, much to the dismay of players. But this is by design for 2 key reasons:

1. Health and rest for Staff & Players
   
2. Scheduling and preventing delays

We block out more time than the match is expected to take because we expect delays. Be technical issues, players being late to contact one another, pick/bans, a late start, or just a long match. Because right now under the old ruleset a match has a finite timepool from which we can confidently construct a schedule that runs pretty much on time, as its a schedule that expects things to go wrong. A continuous overtime presents a risk of a match running beyond our expectations and delaying the entire tournament, in the case of a Swiss setup.

What we found in this Unity Cup is that on average (for Invite & Playoff Matches), matches that went into continuous overtime (AKA past 30 mins) only went on for another 10 minutes with the most extreme case being NOOBPANZER vs Witness going for 50+ minutes. Under the schedule setup we've used at LAN/Weekend Cups we can likely do a BO1 within an hour, BO3 within 2 1/2 and a BO5 within 4 hours using the Unity Cup rule set as is. I was surprised that the tournament ended up running pretty much on schedule or even ahead of it, so I can say that its possible.

The other side of me though thinks that its risky to assume that it will be the case in future events. To this end, I think that the overtime should only activate at a draw or at most a 1-round deviation (1-0, 2-1, 3-2,4-3), and only in matches where there must be a Win or a Loss (things like Playoffs etc.). Basically, removing Golden Cap for a Continuous Overtime rule. Ending a match and then re-execing stuff and re-readying up actually takes quite a lot of time so in this case an overtime rule would actually probably end up saving time. If garbage time is really a problem for teams/players, then I'd recommend implementing the GG plugin again, just with tighter restrictions on when it can be used (3 mins left on match, only by losing team).

In summary, this format has promise and there are parts I definitely feel have value and should be implemented straight away, but the use of Continuous Overtime in standard matches would likely cause massive headaches from an Admin/Organiser's perspective, particularly in time-sensitive tournaments like Weekend Cups and LANs.

my take on the OT thing is that if one team is dominant in a game it's very rare that it should take more than 10 minutes for them to secure one round. I've also made the suggestion before but the 'regular' 30 minutes doesn't actually need to be 30 minutes could be lowered to like 25 for example to keep the game length a bit lower if people are concerned about that (personally I don't mind 35-50 minute 5cp games since that's how long winlimit 4 koth is anyway)

I 100% agree with gazy on the comeback thing though, 5cp maps are designed so the team with mid is supposed to attack especially in stalemate situations. imo round resets in the past have only been so awful because you have to wait 10 minutes to get to one and usually that meant there was a decent amount of time where nothing was happening or you were just seeing the same failures over and over again, if you can't break a stalemate in 5 minutes and the other team doesn't want to take ground either the attacking team failed or the defending team made the choice to not take ground and I think the round resetting in either situation is fine.

5 minutes was way more than cozy as well, still want to see 4 minutes tried or 4:30 if people think 4 somehow isn't enough. on 5 i was able to sit on sniper for like 2 minutes, not do anything, and still have a really strong amount of time to do stuff with 0 creativity or change in approach.

detonator / scorch shot being banned is fine those things are broken anyway just kind of a matter of how unfun you think pyro is. the plugins were kinda silly though. I think the gunboats thing mattered from my perspective maybe twice and both times the only difference would've been a scout/soldier trade instead of just death and honestly whatever. the winger plugin was laughably pointless, the winger isn't that strong in the first place. the iron bomber plugin was also whatever probably mattered about as much as the gunboats one honestly. basically idc either way on all these things

personally i think this ruleset is easily better than both the old na and eu ones even though there's still a lot of room for adjustment

I played at fullerton lan and watched a bit of the cup over the weekend so my thoughts are coming from that perspective.

I really like the threat of a round reset being on the cards as it puts a huge impetus on the attacking team to do something at all times, especially on last pushes. Something I liked about 3 min timer is that round resets happened often on last, as I think that if you fuck up a last push enough times it deserves to go to another mid. However, I do share the sentiment that 3 mins was too short because you would get scenarios like:

Attacking team gets takes second after a scrappy fight where both teams lose players, they wait for their spawns.
After their spawns get there, attacking team gets buffed up, does a double sac and successfully gets a force.
They wait for their spawns to come back in so they can fight 6v6, but by that time they have like 20s left to push.

I think that probably only 1 extra minute would prevent this from ever happening- so a 4 min round timer. 5 obviously offers this too, but you'll get longer stalemates and round resets are less of an option.

I also really like the continuous OT thing. I completely disagree with the sentiment that if you're up like 4-1 at the 30 minute mark you "deserve" to win. I've seen lots matches where momentum completely shifts at the end as one team works out what they need to do to win and they just don't have enough time for a comeback. If you get 5-4ed from that position you deserve to get 5-4ed. I think we'll see this happen more too with this ruleset because people aren't psychologically crushed by knowing that they mathematically can't win.

I also think that the average length of 40-45 minutes is much more natural for a TF2 game. For bo1 30 mins always felt too short to me and for bo3 an hour felt like a nightmare amount of time. I do think DrHappiness' concern is an important one though, there's definitely going to be a scenario somewhere down the line where two teams shit the bed pushing last for 90 minutes at a lan and delay the whole event and hold everyone else up. Not sure how this can be rectified but lan scheduling is almost never on time as is and TF2 has been kicked out of spaces even for things running over with golden caps.

One thing I remember being brought up is that "continuous overtime" might be a problem in pugs. The group I play in runs these sometimes, and the continuous overtime has never really been a problem in my experience.

RGL should try a season with:

• a 4 minute timer
  
• overtime activating only if the round difference is 1 or 0
  
• half time once one team reaches 3 rounds (halftime is now based only on rounds won, without a flat 30min cap)

I won't speak on the ruleset but I frequently see people describe rulesets as correct or incorrect ways of playing when the reality is there is no objectively correct competitive ruleset and if you think that there are aspects that are "objectively true" then sadly you are the people who will delay any real progress in actually obtaining a global ruleset. If you have only played eu rules then its more likely that you will think that if you are up at the end of regulation time you deserve to win where as na players may feel you haven't won until you've capped 5 but both are valid and have produced great games. I think there are some players in both major regions who need to be more open because holding these strong beliefs about how the rules should look just limits any real change.

After playing at fullerton, I think getting rid of halftime altogether is way better for pace of play, tac pauses are a thing and teams haven't played with the config enough to figure out how to use them correctly. 4 minutes seems like the sweet spot, I'd rather the reset be faster than slower because it allows a higher percentage of the game to be actual fights.

Also hard agree with zesty on overtime, allowing the opportunity of a comeback after the time ends means teams can play more composed as the time decreases even if they're losing. We've had at least two matches during the regular season where the momentum shifted in our favor, but we got cut off by the time limit before we could overcome the round deficit.

i feel like halftimes are the source of comebacks for a lot of games (which are entertaining imo), and provide necessary break time for the production team and casters

halftime and tac pausing accomplish the same goal, the difference is that only one of them can last like 20 minutes because someone needs to let their dog out or clean their kitchen

they do not accomplish the same goal because tac pauses are essentially random, so they cant be planned around for production. also, halftime is a much more easily digestible concept in lower divs than giving everyone a set number of tac pauses

This exactly, discussion cannot prosper and unity won't be reached if person x, y, z is refusing/unable to listen and co-operate. Nothing is 'objectively true' nor are there many things that are 'really dumb', experience influences opinion and everyone has to remember and understand that.

I am personally really glad this cup took place as it led me to understand much more about how 6v6 as a game-mode can be played and improved with a few tweaks. I'm not entirely sure about how it was as a viewing experience but while playing I most certainly thought to myself about how much the changes would at least improved my viewing experience if I was on the viewing side myself. I am also now in favour of things I wasn't beforehand and can be swayed on other ideas I'd previously never considered.

I personally agree with at least one element of what most people have said so far (some I agree with on more things than others, naturally), therefore, I hope the feedback and discussion continues towards something we can call progress, and I will happily partake where possible on any new tests that come after this.

fully agree with u, but the problem is that at some point it's a matter of preference in what way people want to play something and since we're in topic of 6s, i'll throw one of the most notorious difference which i see as a player and a league admin between eu and na 6s: market gardener
i made a poll about whether it should be banned or not before etf2l season 41 start and we had around 73% of prem players wanting to have it banned, while in na it's allowed https://i.imgur.com/xSv0C4O.png

of course we want to let have games on etf2l in a way people want it the most because after all the league is basically for players and we do care about our players interest, but it may contradict with interest of people from na or other regions like au/nz which may want market gardener available regardless what it gives and takes

now to the main question: i can't imagine how leagues could have some sorta agreement on that if there would be some strong differences in opinions on some matters like this one, how to deal with it?

For the record on people talking about unlocks, I've played 6s for 9 years and the vaccinator (and possibly the rescue ranger?) are the only unlocks that allowing/not allowing made any hugely significant difference to the way the game is played in that time. In general they're way less impactful than the gamemode, and I think unifying them matters less.

fortnite

if you know, you know.

problem with this format is that when the server is on one map for too long (30min+) you start to get crouchjump lags

this obviously favors na players since theres lot more pencils in their region, kaidus pls fix

https://i.imgur.com/4QJEob7.png

I still refuse to see how irrelevant unlocks that don't change the game are seen as somehow more important to unify than a map pool.

what are the options for setting up a private stv with no delay for casters? one of the perhaps overlooked problems of the tactical pause ruleset is that you find yourself paused for ages in the middle of a teamfight if you're watching the casted stream. eliminating the delay for tac pauses would be really nice if we want them to be a mainstay, and also gets rid of gg lag.
is there no way to set up a STV relay with delay for public STV viewers, then delay the casters' twitch stream using an instant private stv?