you were mates with her as well

Yeah, I'm guessing if its a well regarded community member during that era of tf2 it's likely I would have been. Idk what to say about that, it's fucked to think that someone you were friends with was an awful person the whole time.

Try Not To Install Cheats On Your Computer Challenge (impossible)

in retrospect im just very sad and disappointed by the fact that players who are idolised to this day by much of the community knew about and were complicit in the abuse and enabled her behaviour. telling a 16 year old kid that trying to commit suicide over being manipulated and betrayed by a much older adult is somehow an unnatural and unacceptable response is beyond vile. i dealt with that whole thing and it took a fair bit of time to put it behind me but to this day it just kinda rubs me the wrong way to know that if i were to tell the whole story i would be doubted at best and completely disregarded at worst because of how well respected those players are even now

Even those lesser crimes in question still have recorded evidence that will be sent to you or shown to you if you appeal.
This whole argument is dumb anyway as there is no way to appeal this ban because they are refusing to share information with Jeven. If he appeals blindly they're gonna tell him to fuck off.

Jeven is nothing more than a TF2 acquaintance the same way the rest of the community is. I would write the same nerd essays and participate in these discussions leading nowhere if it was one of the people that were being toxic to my team the past seasons. The ban is just iffy with no context.

Also, those arguments are in the same category as saying "The AC team has years of experience" "The AC team doesn't do false bans" "The AC team are perfect".Not to discredit the AC team of course, but this way of thinking is dumb. I'm basing my arguments for Jeven on personal experience and you are basing the arguments for the AC team on their authority. If you think about it both are invalid and it brings me back to "Innocent until PROVEN guilty" and "the burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused".

hey guys European Team Fort 2 League Anti Cheat Team representative here to clear up some misconceptions.
umm we dgaf what u think lmfao. maybe don't cheat next time?

Back in my day you only got unfairly banned for one year ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°

(And like 11months to get it overturned)

Got more to say about this topic but cba to type it in my phone so.. to quote a famous line "ill be back"

https://i.imgur.com/rtDbooM.jpg

cant believe i cheated my whole career and no one ever caught on

Interesting thing about jevens VAC circumstances. Jeven got VAC ban because he used free lmaobox version (the one that used to spam get lmaobox in all caps) on a community server after I told him how funny it would be if he did that ironically. That was years ago when we were kids. Lol. If I recall correctly he didn't even have a single match nor team registered on his profile back then too and was only planning to get into competitive. So correct me if I'm wrong but I suppose if he didn't even have an account linked on ETF2L back then he would be entering the scene clean?

https://i.imgur.com/g8IRaqA.gif

ok...?
anyway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4YZeyl0I

jeven going crazy on rec post

https://imgur.com/a/rSrw3yP
it strat on cuby and end on spolioz

such a cool guy !

if 10% of players cared about the game as much as jeven did we'd have a healthy and growing comp scene

https://imgur.com/a/6QJ46Qr

at what cost...

recruitment post comments are going missing but we already wasted the 1984 template on page 1

in 2038 something my kids will play ammomod

I do wonder, if he was banned now for cheating on a first time offence with a 2 year no compete punishment, how many people would be as outraged/convinced this is a conspiracy. Rather I imagine it would be the exact opposite.

I respect you a lot as a player Mong, having subbed on your team last season and even learning from you, but I question your take on the reconciliation of players like Jeven and the growing competitive scene. Fresh blood is propelled into the competitive scene via mediums like rahmixes, other discord mixes and tf2center etc., not once in my numerous experiences with Jeven in these platforms have I seen him be close to pre-eminent in scene growth, rather the very opposite. I do not doubt that within his prem team discord he was different with how serious he took games & his commitment but that is not akin to growing a competitive scene, certainly not a healthy one in consideration.

Jeven you've literally been liberated by the admins from wasting your life on tf2 and you're still out here shitposting on etf2l rec posts... Get a grip

posting is more fun than playing everyone knows that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2sc_ck5BZU

Reading it is much better

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/268796740117856256/975703753275637792/unknown.png

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1859435100012598216/C12A16324D2EA96E29394F7D9FA858BC361DAC6F/

If anyone truly believes that the evidence used to catch cheaters should be shared by the anti cheat team, or that there is bias in the people banning others in a league (bias exists, but not for bans of this length), then there isn't much to say.

I do think that it is important to have someone (in this case gazy/kn) emphasise that an open information relationship between players and admins is the ideal way to run things, but you both also have to acknowledge that they are unpaid volunteers. There is no strict guidelines in "how to run a league". The person in charge can run it how they like especially when there is no monetary investments. If it truly does disturb you then feel free to make your own league. Or do what happens in real life and become the main financial supporter of the league, hold the money over their heads so they do things how you want it done. Or apply for an admin spot at ETF2L Lord knows they could use more higher level 6s admins even just to talk to players about what they like/don't like. Supra does a good job, but the difference between playing with/against guys every night compared to doing a monthly check in is big and organizing pre-season polls is big.

Purely in response to this, it is something I've considered. However I'm fairly certain the admin team would never want somebody with my ban history on either admin team (understandably, fair consequences for my actions) but this doesn't mean other people can't.

That and in relation to the "open information relationship" aspect, I was never intending for my posts to come across as me wanting to look at all of the evidence because that would involve the tools and how they caught them. I simply wish to know which features of the cheat they were using, which games it was in and that the player was 100% cheating without a doubt. Mistakes from the anticheat team are rare but can happen so that's why I always chip into these big cheating ban drama threads to argue for the person who's been banned, especially when no one suspected him/nothing about his play was blatantly suspicious. Either way as you said, it is their league not mine and whether my arguments make sense or not at da end of the day its completely up to them how it goes.

Last point I'll make is that I feel as though having high level players from 6s on the anticheat team would go a long way in helping with aspects of cheats that the tools can't catch (if there are any). This is purely theory but as quintosh mentioned specific values I'd assume the tools are for things like aimbots and etc rather than walls (correct me if I'm wrong). So if there were any high level players with the free time to look into demos and judge whether somebody's play was "he's just good" or "he can literally see thru walls" I'm sure that'd really help the AC team.

edit:

Post below is much more informative than anything I've read prior and disputes a lot of what I've said very well. Recommend reading dat more than anything else on the thread.

I'd like to weigh in here. The ETF2L Anti-Cheat team does appreciate receiving constructive feedback even if it doesn't always seem that way to the community. I certainly prefer the constructive takes in this thread over stuff I have seen for previous bans from people with zero competitive experience who somehow still knew enough to commentate on ETF2L AC matters, apparently.
But unlike League Admins who are able to apply the feedback they get from polls or requests by testing or changing stuff up for the next season, the stuff we get is mostly about Anti-Cheat policies we absolutely cannot change. That we should share evidence or give out information regarding cases, for example. Or it is feedback that we are taking too long, acting too fast / that we ban people who are innocent, that we are biased and so on.
Due to the secretive nature of our positions we cannot talk much about our work, having to say the same thing over and over again to different people when we know it's not what they actually want to hear. You are frustrated, we are frustrated, but in the end this is just something we have to deal with because we know the negative effect it would have for AC otherwise.

To quote quintosh:

This cannot be stated often enough. You might not want to believe it without proof and I can't really blame you for that, it's good to remain skeptical sometimes. But if current staff members and previous staff members, some in this thread, say the same thing with different words I don't really know what else to say other than just believe that we aren't trying to bullshit you with excuses on purpose.
What I'd like to add as a different argument though is that we are also protecting our sources and reporters by not providing any information on what exact situation the cheating happened in. Revealing this can also have an effect not just in the trust reporters have for us but it may also remove our access to things that aren't really public knowledge if we share the sources, or reduce the value they give us for our own future investigations.
I cannot really comment on the "magic tools" we supposedly have, but it's really not as easy as that when investigating someone (sadly).
I think ban reasons were also mentioned in this thread. It's true that ETF2L had more precise ban reasons for cheating in the past, but in 2020 we decided to change the reason because they gave away what the AC team found, which seemed counterintuitive to our policy on information sharing, plus they might have led to some confusion in the community at times. A more general "Cheating" ban reason which the other TF2 leagues were also using seemed like the better solution.

AC admins make decisions to the best of their ability and understanding of the game, cheat tells and the case material, having policies in place to minimise the possibility of biased decision-making, requiring a majority of staff to agree with the findings without anyone pointing out a flaw in the investigation. If we have made any mistakes on any ban then we are genuinely sorry to those affected. We don't ban anyone for cheating simply because we dislike them. We judge the evidence that is available and only when we think it's conclusive enough we will ban, not before.
Now, Baud was mentioned in this thread, to which I'd just like to say that not only did he get banned for cheating twice and the bans were never overturned, but the decisions were also made by two different AC teams each time.

On the topic of perma bans:
Even with a permanent ban for cheating or getting 2 TF2 VACs it's not the end of the line, according to rule 6.2.1:

The players have to follow these requirements and they can apply for an appeal two years after their permanent ban. Spamming recruitment posts with... weird stuff is not the way to go.

We would appreciate a more general interest in Anti-Cheat because the numbers of people who would want to do it, have the time and are qualified for it is decreasing. We get applications where you question yourself if it's a serious application or a troll, the user has a questionable league history or you have to worry about potential ulterior motivations to gain information, or they only want to focus on certain divs or gamemodes when we need people for the entire league. League experience sadly also isn't really an indicator for how useful of an AC admin will be judging from test case results I have seen from high to top div players (not going to name anyone). People see blatant cheating when it's not happening, and miss the stuff we actually wanted them to see or at least consider when analysing demos.
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future, if no suitable replacements are found or they also left, that TF2 leagues will no longer have dedicated Anti-Cheat teams anymore and it might revert into some sort of weird mix of League/AC admin input like 2011 and before.
This doesn't only apply to EU, by the way. If any NA etc. players are reading this who want to give AC a try, please go for it and apply to your leagues.

I do wish that Valve would finally step up and do literally anything with VAC in TF2. Anti-Cheat generally has a massive backlog. Some cases are relatively "easy"; others take weeks or longer to investigate, meaning we have to prioritise while also not forgetting about the other cases we still have to work on. If you resolve a case, two new ones come in. Having VAC as a "backup" and a form of credibility (players banned for cheating who end up with a VAC later on) would help a lot, but that might remain wishful thinking until Valve shows a bigger interest in TF2 again.

jeven banned hhaha big funny