Cheating is just kinda cringe

all a 2 year ban from cheating does for someone that actively tried to hide cheats in league play is give them 2 years to practice getting better at hiding their cheats

What if everyone refused to scrim that team and everyone forfeited matches against them in protest? The cheating teams make playoffs anyways but at least you only get 1 point for a forfeit

Well, in any ways, it was a good game overall, i'd like to apologize for arguing with you guys, i kind of got pissed a bit after all the taunts, even tho i already apologized at the end of the game, im doing it again, and i sincerely hope you will be at a prem level soon. Don't be discouraged by being beaten by lifeless boomers, GGs and good luck.

it just always takes them 6 months to deal with stuff like this, that's how long it took them to ban screwball's alt after I reported him trying to play in RGL-AM

huge difference from cheating in a casual game and a sanctioned competitive match. The thought process behind joining a league, team, and deciding to cheat in an official match implies you don’t care about the match’s integrity and don’t deserve to play for the foreseeable future.

bans should be permanent with at least a 2 years minimum before you can appeal. If you were truly remorseful you would make a genuine appeal and an effort to improve.

do u rly think that

https://i.imgur.com/bevniji.gif

yeah very regular

This is how I feel about it. I think people deserve a chance to change and re-enter the community after they've done their time, but with more rigorous scrutiny of their behavior for a while. I did see someone just the other day with only one year's ban for cheating, and I would say that's probably too little time for most people to turn over a new leaf, though.

hmm should i unban the cheating guy who cheated in pugs while being banned for cheating yeah lets give him a shot

Not saying hes not cheating but this is a bad example

https://i.imgur.com/Zdpw3S5.png

https://i.imgur.com/9wTAEBw.png

what is this bro

SCRATCHH?

I dont have that level of courage

really makes you think

Hi I just want to add to this discussion and hopefully everyone feels like I'm hearing what is being put down.
I'm sure many of y'all have seen this Basically Homeless video with 1.2mil views, and I think people are more weary than ever of playing against cheaters since AI isn't exactly here to save us yet.

Allow me to pick on two of my friends of many years, instead of anyone I may not know:

We cannot simply assume these to be true. What RGL would need to see in order for this discussion to be productive is some concrete sources: what are true trends in the industry? Is there any research to support our experiences and opinions? It should go without saying that RGL wishes to follow the research, trends and facts here.

Afaik the origin of the cheating ban lengths started as 1 year from ESEA and we used this for some time before making it 2 years.

TL;DR: RGL is open to change, make better posts with thoughtful evidence and sources. Speak, and be heard

Throw em out, throw em out into the cold. Don't give em their coat. No coats. No coats! Confiscate their coats!

ban sinkarma
known cheater

permanent no double jeopardy

why would rgl want to follow the trends? why would you not follow the desires of the playerbase? esea has a 1 year cheating ban because its a for profit business, not because after a year (or two) cheaters are reformed. we are an extremely small game and the effect a cheater has in tf2 is far greater than a game like csgo. if there is one cheater in advanced then everyone is almost guaranteed to play him, in CSGO there might be 30 cheaters and none of them are in your conference because the game is so much larger than tf2.

esea also has an actual anti cheat, the only reason freakshow got banned is that he literally streamed himself with cheats enabled, thats what it took. if rgl was more consistent and capable in catching people cheating then a 2 year ban would be more reasonable, even though i still fully think anyone cheating should be perma banned.

tf2 should not follow the trends of other games that have hundreds of thousands of players and a comp scene where they have multiple majors a year with huge prize pools, lans, and actual teams of people dedicated solely to counteract cheating efforts, the games are not comparable. our league is not a for profit business, it is for the people that love to play and watch competitive tf2 and anyone that cheats in league play does not fall into that category.

i think esea's policy was that they would just collect ur money every year and then ban u for cheating again

what if rgl made it cost $100 to get unbanned for cheating

The entire point of moderating the game is to make sure it's fun for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase that is just trying to play.

There's no inalienable human right to play tf2 in a league; if someone goes out of their way to ruin it for others by cheating (or doxing/ddosing/whatever), just permaban them and don't look back without a damn good reason. It's a videogame ban, not taking away their driver's license.

if ur the type of person to want to win so bad u have to cheat in official play u should not get a second chance wat so ever because the type of ppl that stoop to that shit are usually not alright in the head

There are many games that just hardware id ban you for cheating instantly.

That's mostly beside the point though. I think people just really do not like playing against cheaters, for very good reason. Tf2 isn't a massive game and while I understand you can't treat it as a small thing, and I don't think anyone is really advocating for it to be treated like it's insignificant, I do think that having to play against known cheaters does just take the fun away for 99% of people. I don't think there's anyone other than the people on cheater teams/cheater friend groups actually wanting former cheaters to come back. This season as mopsy said, everyone just has to play against elijah again, which no one really wants to do.

As other people have said as well, there has been little to no punishment for people actually playing with him really. Elijah was playing pugs and scrims all the same, banned or not for years. What's even the point of discussing the length of a cheating ban, if the people cheating can play the game anyways other than matches.

I can understand your rational for wanting to follow industry standards and the precedent set by other games, but the reality is tf2 doesn't have the resources to properly investigate every former cheater, nor does rgl have the power to fully remove cheaters from playing the game in every context other than matches. Lenience and 2nd chances are important, but it's coming at the cost of the entire community. Why should everyone else be punished when someone can cheat and have little to no actual consequence for it? Banning people for more significant lengths of time at least would make keeping track of cheaters easier and make punishing the people who insist on playing with them anyways easier.

i almost always end up doing other things with my time than pug bc i look in the add channel and known cheaters/extremely toxic people are sitting there bc neet mfs would rather die than not play tf2 even if it's with the stinkiest assholes you've ever met. then they'll say shit like "oh but we won't get enough people if we don't let everyone play" but the reason you struggle to get enough is because half the server members left because mxr is sitting there cheating his ass off

if we were faster with the permas on people that make the community look bad maybe there'd be better retention at the lower levels and thus growth

wouldn't that mean habib would be permabanned?

anicca is a former [aS] mge admin from when the server was alive, I think she played some esea??? Also don't you literally play on teams with Elijah? Is that why you are on nuts this hard?

https://youtu.be/ItBDepGyfK0

i never played on a team with elijah. unhinged person i barely posted anything

ugc