I just want to be clear I think the Elo rating system is good for 1v1 games like chess, but not as good in 6v6 for example. For a matchmaking system to actually work, there needs to be some skill estimation used. Valve uses a modified Glicko system for example, with MMR being a skill estimation. The key thing here is that people should not know their MMR or rating, it should only be used for the matchmaking system.

I simply disagree. I feel like this only works for circlejerks where everyone knows everyone else.

the tables in rules are hilarious

idk about circlejerk, but the tf2 community is pretty small. usually by the time people hit adv, they know everyone else adv & inv

not so sure about open - main these days, but during ESEA at least most open players knew everyone else after a season or so (e.g. everyone except the newest players)

the tough part is if we don't do captaining, do we go with ELO? will enough games get played for it to be useful, in a community this small? imo the old pugchamp/mixchamp split works best, with captained games for the upper divs where everyone knows each other, and elo/all-but-random games for when there are many strangers

Hi all, just as an update, we are aiming to enter the beta phase of PUGs come the new year (#NewYearNewPUGs). This will be a large update with the following:

• Revamped UX
  
• Player profiles
  
• Leaderboards
  
• Queues may now have a minimum/maximum elo for queueing or captaining
  
• Ability to spectate current PUGs
  
• Numerous moderator/runner tools
  
• Player reports
  
• Prevent players from baiting RUP/captain
  
  • Repeated baits will now have longer bans
    
• Countless server fixes, including wrong maps/passwords, and auto-kicking players not in PUG
  
  • In the case that something breaks, players can initiate an auto-fix
    
• Fix player subs
  
• Elo fixes:
  
  • All elos have been recalculated
    
  • You may now request your elo to be manually reviewed on your profile
    
  • Elos now recalculate properly after each PUG
    
• Miscellaneous fixes
  
• Surprise features

I am aiming to have this released by Jan 7th at the latest. At that time, I will also announce the detailed 2024 road plan from Beta to Official Release, including specific features and timelines.

Thank you everyone for playtesting and providing invaluable feedback!

the prayers are working brothers and sisters

btw it would be nice to have a larger map pool than just the maps in the current RGL system so that people can play games on them and try them out (e.g., include all 3 koth even tho only 2 are in each season, include metal at least since it was just recently voted out, id say even granry/badlands cause people can just ban it if they don't want it, pugchamp had reckoner even which was interesting just for variety's sake--maybe do whichever major new maps are being considered)

bump

Really excited to see RGL Pugs finally coming into beta! Especially the ability to spectate the current pugs -- would relevate the boredom when waiting for that pug to end or waiting for another one to start.

In addition to that, be able to fix servers issues that where previously discussed from the last attempt the community did a month prior.

Hoping to see if any major changes have been made to its "open" system and how it balance teams with the new elo recalculations.

is the site code open source? if yes, where i can find it?

erm

erm

Welcome to RGL PUGs Public Beta v1!
As mentioned previously, this is a large update with some cool features:

- Reworked some UX
- Player list with leaderboards per-class & overall
- Player profiles
- PUG history with top captains
- You may report players by clicking on their card
- Servers now keep track of their own passwords, maps, and players
-- Any discrepancies should now be auto-corrected
- Moderators can now accurately track if servers have missing maps on the site
- More moderator tools
- Queues can now be more easily created/deleted/customized
- Elo fixes
-- All elos have been recalculated
-- You may now request your elo to be manually reviewed on your profile
-- Elos now recalculate properly after each PUG
-- Auto-captain now considers the classes you tend to play/win
- If you are not in a PUG, you can now choose to spectate it (if available)
- Subbing should now be more responsive
- Adjusted some class weights
- Added some more maps
- Misc fixes

Note that the site may still have some unknown bugs, which I will be ironing out over this week, so keep reporting them along with any feedback!

In terms of the path to full release, we now plan to have weekly updates EVERY Sunday throughout beta.

In no specific order or priority, we have the following public plans for beta:
- More stabilization, bug fixes, etc. (duh)
- More elo work
- Map nominations
- Customizations
-- Voice packs
-- Donor perks
- Pre-season test queues
- Party queueing
- Post-PUG surveys
- Built-in tutorials and resources for new players
- More moderation tools
- More statistics for analyzing your elo and tools for captains/moderators
- More stuff TBA

This beta phase is estimated to span about the next 6 months.

Note that I am currently working on fixing some of the initial errors, thanks for your patience

it appears that the open pugs doesn't check what server to assign based on if the server is currently being used and kicked us out mid pug. no worries though there's time to iron out and fix stuff

kicked out mid pug because captains game started and they stole server

please fix! :)

Due to nfo server [issues] and site issues, PUG are currently on hold. We are working as fast as we can and will keep you updated, expect a fix by the ~10th after we do thorough internal testing and confirm things are actually working.

Review for BETA RGL PUGs

Today's 'release', despite being considered a "shit-show" were still better then the previous attempts a month prior.

With emphasis on servers actually working, without issues regarding the incorrect map, bad password, or raid attempts.

Now, coming into the issues, there's a lot to unfold:

1. The server hosting the PUGs -- or NFO servers as dolphin mentions -- had major instability issues. Specifically, its constant lag spikes that would hit the entire servers, which would happen every min, more or less.

2. The Captain System. Its honestly needs an entire rework or a revamp, as it seems any player can captain -- leading to troll picks or unbalance teams.

2.1. The fix is simple -- the system should select the two highest elo players who toggled for captain.

3. The Site. In terms of design, I honestly really liked it. The UI and animations look really sleek now compared to its alpha. In terms of functionality, it was mixed baggage. Obviously, with today being the beta test release, the website was working hard to keep itself up with the amount of players trying to sign in. This lead to trying to add up the pugs being really buggy, to the point some couldn't queue or some couldn't pick players. In addition to that, the "sort" function not working as intended when trying to sort by elo.

Despite what major issues happen today, its definitely a step forward for its 2024 road-plan its full-release. Its always a matter of finding and fixing flaws or fine-tuning a part.

Any-case, hoping to see to fixes! see yall on the 10th!

Feedback from today:
I'm gonna try not to mention the obvious stuff.

- Moderators (or maybe both captains if they agree) should be able to abort a draft in the middle or at the end. I can see a lot of situations where someone misclicks or the like.
- For map picks, maybe instead of choosing between 3 maps, the players can ban down to the map. If you want to spice things up or encourage underplayed maps, maybe have the site auto ban one map at random.
- Whenever a pug would die, players would lose elo, leading to elo changes that were not deserved. This also lead to some players having negative elo, which I assume is also something that is not intended.
- This is probably not that big of an issue if an elo priority captain system is put in place, but maybe make non-open pugs (captain pugs? not really a clear distinction imo) adv+ or invite only.

Pugs were fun :) cool to have a pug site again hopefully this sticks. Missed having Della snipe captain in top invite pugs. Feels like home again.

I didn't have time to stick around and watch the pugs last night so this could already be a thing, but I feel like a "Confirm pick of [NAME] as [ROLE]"-popup would help the misclick issue, at least.

bump.

Just saw this edit for the second quote if you guys didn't scroll up. Really excited to know that RGL PUGs will be receiving weekly updates! Hopefully, we'll get some people adding today... I got scrims though lol.

Assuming same time 10 pm est today? or tomorrow if things haven't been iron out yet.

We will likely not be running PUGs until item servers are back up, but rest assured we are making great progress with fixing all the bugs!

skial's custom item server mod is able to bypass item servers being down but idk how that works

as of now 1/11, item servers are back up.

In addition, the pug site is currently working again with servers available at this time (servers weren't available earlier, assuming for maintenance).

Ty dolphin :D

The #1 weekly beta update is now live!
NEW:
- Captains are now decided by top two elos
- Lobbies now accurately display that it's waiting for 2 captains, not more players
- Made elo a bit more visible on readied players
- Switching classes/teams is now blocked in HL pugs. We are still internally deciding off-class rules/guidelines for 6s.
- Fixed some more site crashes
From previous updates this week:
- Fixed bug that caused servers to stutter
- Fixed minimum captain elo acting as a maximum
- Fixed servers not properly being marked as used
- Fixed killed pugs affecting elos. This previously gave some users negative elo when the pug was not played.
- Increased minimum elo for captained pugs

We also now have a dedicated Chicago PUG server!

Thank you to everyone that has tested beta so far, please continue reporting any bugs/feedback!

There definitely needs to be separate dedicated servers for the HL and 6s Queue soon -- 1 server for both at queues at least.

I think with the ramp up and promotion of RGL PUGs into beta, a rush of players have flooded in, especially for HL again. This had lead to HL PUGs taking over the 1 dedicated server at times where 6s players want to queue up.

There was enough for the 6s captain queue today -- after waiting half and hour for the HL open pug to end -- and it look like it was about to happen until the HL Open PUG took the server instantly. This basically killed the 6s captain queue and much them moved to an in-house pug server. Nothing wrong with that, but if there's a need for testing, wouldn't you want to get feedback on both formats?

Obviously, there's been a search to find a decent server provider that works for the website, so I can't fault you guys testing with 1 server most of the time. Hope we can get more servers soon....

You're definitely right that we need to add more servers. Thankfully I think we've found a good candidate for a server host after the spree of unreliable ones (major nationwide server outages tonight didn't help with this). I'll likely be adding more from them this week after confirming with those who played on them.

Some ways RGL pugs could be improved:

1. Right now, any player can click a button to "sub out" any other player in the pug. By doing this, whoever is "subbed" is banned for 2 hours, whether or not he was actually there or not. So anyone can give anyone else a 2 hour ban by just clicking a button.

2. After the pug ends, the automatically-created discord channels close after about a minute or two, cutting people off mid-conversation. Part of the fun of playing pugs is talking with people after the pug ends, and this cuts it short. I recommend just having multiple permanent discord channels to move people into; that would solve this problem.

3. There should be a chat feature for each pug lobby.

4. Captains should be picked from the 2 highest-elo players. If that's already supposed to happen, it isn't working now.

These are some of the main problems with the site right now.

https://i.imgur.com/4l5B4p6.png

help?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1168056877507166268/1198154036889796658/rglprofile1.png?ex=65bddee7&is=65ab69e7&hm=e128872b5a465e9a2050266200a2d044439384f93b5ec2053d9945fa1ab3ecb4&;

Step 1:

Find your profile -- fastest way to do this add up, right click your account, then going into "profile"

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1168056877507166268/1198154037175005244/rglprofile2.png?ex=65bddee7&is=65ab69e7&hm=2579814067954e6d8c911e435556ad514a77acfbc8c4b4280d7c09ed3f0f8e9a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1143&height=554

Step 2:

Into your profile, you'll find a "request elo review" button. Press it.

Step 3:

Play the waiting game. PUG admins will manually review your account and set up your elo when possible.

The weekly update #2 - The "ARE YOU SURE?" update - is live!
(Apologies for the delayed weekly update, as I wanted to make sure everything was good to go instead of rushing anything.)

NEW:
- Moved substitute player button from player card menu to a dedicated button
- Added required reason for substitution
- Reverted minimum sub votes to 3 to sub a player
- Added sub status to player card
- Added PUG bait warning when removing from class/captain in Ready-Up stage
-- If a PUG does not start, any players that leave after readying will be restricted from captain or banned. These get progressively longer.
- Added 2nd dedicated server, currently adding 3rd as well

FIXED:
- Captains should now properly be assigned to the top 2 elo players
- Alert sounds should now properly play provided page interaction
- Elos should now properly update if you have no elo upon login
- Servers should now properly upload to demos.tf

Thank you once again to everyone that has been testing and providing feedback!