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RGL PUGs Public Alpha
posted in Projects
271
#271
1 Frags +
wonderoflmake open pugs first 12 queue captain. balancing pugs with just an algorithm is impossible

I actually disagree, at least as far as the site’s favorability is concerned. an auto captained open pug should probably never have worse than .55-.45 calculated favorability. you can just do 1 to 1 swaps after choosing the players and roles
to even out the ratings between each team. there are only 32 combinations to try before figuring out which one gives the closest to 50-50 favorability. of course the ratings themselves being inaccurate will throw this off but provided sample size the ratings will move to approach more accurate numbers. ive seen the auto picker pick teams that it calculates are 75-25 and this should literally just never happen. it wouldnt be hard to implement this either, and it would be fully independent of whatever logic they are using for picking the players / roles in the pug.

[quote=wonderofl]make open pugs first 12 queue captain. balancing pugs with just an algorithm is impossible[/quote]

I actually disagree, at least as far as the site’s favorability is concerned. an auto captained open pug should probably never have worse than .55-.45 calculated favorability. you can just do 1 to 1 swaps after choosing the players and roles
to even out the ratings between each team. there are only 32 combinations to try before figuring out which one gives the closest to 50-50 favorability. of course the ratings themselves being inaccurate will throw this off but provided sample size the ratings will move to approach more accurate numbers. ive seen the auto picker pick teams that it calculates are 75-25 and this should literally just never happen. it wouldnt be hard to implement this either, and it would be fully independent of whatever logic they are using for picking the players / roles in the pug.
272
#272
3 Frags +
trippa

ive seen a good number of pugs get ruined by balance due to drunk players. ive seen more get ruined by bad player combinations, like 2 people who hate each other and argue for the entire pug, or ppl trolling glxy for fun at the expense of the pug. additionally, an elo system is too slow. ive had pugs where a new player went 2-25. an elo system will need 10 games before it determines that new player is a 500 elo player, but a captain will understand immediately that's a last pick.

it is Impossible for an algorithm to adequately balance pugs. even if you made a super ai for this purpose (big waste of time), it still wouldn't do a good job, since an algorithm doesn't play the game or join vc.

[quote=trippa]
[/quote]
ive seen a good number of pugs get ruined by balance due to drunk players. ive seen more get ruined by bad player combinations, like 2 people who hate each other and argue for the entire pug, or ppl trolling glxy for fun at the expense of the pug. additionally, an elo system is too slow. ive had pugs where a new player went 2-25. an elo system will need 10 games before it determines that new player is a 500 elo player, but a captain will understand immediately that's a last pick.

it is Impossible for an algorithm to adequately balance pugs. even if you made a super ai for this purpose (big waste of time), it still wouldn't do a good job, since an algorithm doesn't play the game or join vc.
273
#273
-2 Frags +

i blame rekuso for open pugs
and dank
fuck these guys

i blame rekuso for open pugs
and dank
fuck these guys
274
#274
4 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/kFoYUuk.png

How do I meet my expected performance

[img]https://i.imgur.com/kFoYUuk.png[/img]
How do I meet my expected performance
275
#275
3 Frags +
loafei blame rekuso for open pugs
and dank
fuck these guys

Don't hate on my swagapino king

https://image-cdn-ak.spotifycdn.com/image/ab67706c0000da84e51542145944bb48a60c66af

[quote=loafe]i blame [b]rekuso [/b] for open pugs
and dank
fuck these guys[/quote]


Don't hate on my swagapino king

[img]https://image-cdn-ak.spotifycdn.com/image/ab67706c0000da84e51542145944bb48a60c66af[/img]
276
#276
-7 Frags +
Juustinloafei blame rekuso for open pugs
and dank
fuck these guys

Don't hate on my swagapino king

https://image-cdn-ak.spotifycdn.com/image/ab67706c0000da84e51542145944bb48a60c66af

What an awful mold you have crawled from.

[quote=Juustin][quote=loafe]i blame [b]rekuso [/b] for open pugs
and dank
fuck these guys[/quote]


Don't hate on my swagapino king

[img]https://image-cdn-ak.spotifycdn.com/image/ab67706c0000da84e51542145944bb48a60c66af[/img][/quote]

What an awful mold you have crawled from.
277
#277
7 Frags +

expected performance criticism has already been aired out by lots of people but this one is really really really funny like if ur ever dropping these numbers in a 20 min pug you should get a 100 if ur alex
https://pugs.tf.plus/history/6767922fd45ec127f07ecead

expected performance criticism has already been aired out by lots of people but this one is really really really funny like if ur ever dropping these numbers in a 20 min pug you should get a 100 if ur alex
https://pugs.tf.plus/history/6767922fd45ec127f07ecead
278
#278
4 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIIIexpected performance criticism has already been aired out by lots of people but this one is really really really funny like if ur ever dropping these numbers in a 20 min pug you should get a 100 if ur alex
https://pugs.tf.plus/history/6767922fd45ec127f07ecead

https://pugs.tf.plus/history/674132c0c9536ad36b128383
This is from before the new elo update just thought it was kinda funny that i could possibly lose elo after dropping this.

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]expected performance criticism has already been aired out by lots of people but this one is really really really funny like if ur ever dropping these numbers in a 20 min pug you should get a 100 if ur alex
https://pugs.tf.plus/history/6767922fd45ec127f07ecead[/quote]

https://pugs.tf.plus/history/674132c0c9536ad36b128383
This is from before the new elo update just thought it was kinda funny that i could possibly lose elo after dropping this.
279
#279
1 Frags +
bigbankcampaignhttps://pugs.tf.plus/history/674132c0c9536ad36b128383
This is from before the new elo update just thought it was kinda funny that i could possibly lose elo after dropping this.

how does a 5-0 pug last 52 minutes

[quote=bigbankcampaign]
https://pugs.tf.plus/history/674132c0c9536ad36b128383
This is from before the new elo update just thought it was kinda funny that i could possibly lose elo after dropping this.[/quote]

how does a 5-0 pug last 52 minutes
280
#280
1 Frags +

according to the chart you clearly underperformed :\

according to the chart you clearly underperformed :\
281
#281
5 Frags +

maybe I'm reading into it too much, but it seems like the system pretty heavily prioritizes picking people with lower elo even when there's enough people for a higher avg elo pug

I get significantly more roamer pugs over pocket because my roamer is like 200~ elo lower. If I add to both scout and soldier it always picks me on scout. I see people like rekuso added up and get fatkidded like 4+ pugs in a row vs spacebar who gets in nearly every pug he adds to. Pretty much everyone I've talked to about it agrees that they feel like they get picked on the lowest elo class they add to.

maybe I'm reading into it too much, but it seems like the system pretty heavily prioritizes picking people with lower elo even when there's enough people for a higher avg elo pug

I get significantly more roamer pugs over pocket because my roamer is like 200~ elo lower. If I add to both scout and soldier it always picks me on scout. I see people like rekuso added up and get fatkidded like 4+ pugs in a row vs spacebar who gets in nearly every pug he adds to. Pretty much everyone I've talked to about it agrees that they feel like they get picked on the lowest elo class they add to.
282
#282
11 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/5CzLyx2.png

1 death has a bigger impact on Actual Performance than 5 kills, 3 assists, and 79 dpm? Why?

https://i.imgur.com/OnHhRjW.png

I would have had to do like 410 dpm to meet Expected Performance on damage when I only have 1450 Elo, you need to seriously adjust the way it scales. Having Spacebar in a pug shouldn't make it impossible for anybody else to gain Elo.

TLDR: award Elo based on winning the game, I can't believe this is still an issue 9 months after you were initially convinced to change it.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/5CzLyx2.png[/img]

1 death has a bigger impact on Actual Performance than 5 kills, 3 assists, and 79 dpm? Why?

https://i.imgur.com/OnHhRjW.png

I would have had to do like 410 dpm to meet Expected Performance on damage when I only have 1450 Elo, you need to seriously adjust the way it scales. Having Spacebar in a pug shouldn't make it impossible for anybody else to gain Elo.


TLDR: award Elo based on winning the game, I can't believe this is still an issue 9 months after you were initially convinced to change it.
283
#283
7 Frags +

Elo should be win/loss only and you should never lose elo for winning a pug.

Also, when you sort by elo on the add-up screen, it doesn't sort players by highest to lowest elo. Sorting by div also doesn't work.

Elo should be win/loss only and you should never lose elo for winning a pug.

Also, when you sort by elo on the add-up screen, it doesn't sort players by highest to lowest elo. Sorting by div also doesn't work.
284
#284
-2 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/oXTadr6.png

unable to spectate pugs, idk if this is a bug with the website or servers not being able to have stv support

[img]https://i.imgur.com/oXTadr6.png[/img]
unable to spectate pugs, idk if this is a bug with the website or servers not being able to have stv support
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