this is perfect, thank you

In addition to snakewater last being hard to push into, it is also hard to push out of. I believe this is due to the proximity of forward spawns and the length of the spawn timer. Perhaps attacking spawn times should be increased by ~1s?

I know absolutely nothing about maps so this post is probably really stupid :P

Would that new fence to the left of the big door remove the sniper line from there to the back left? because if that is where most medics hold that might make sniper useless on last.

Can you also fix the fact that the walls between lobby and last are thin enough that you can see shadows through them? You can tell where the push will come from entirely from the shadows.

The extra room looks interesting and i subscribe everything frkn said. Longer respawn times or the spawns being farther away is needed.

I don’t get these changes you show on the screens. Don't they make pushing last harder? This way, you can’t play with a sniper as effectively and four man suicides are harder (both because of the new fence). You have to push über vs. über more and that's just bound to fail on snakewater last because of the ground you have to cover until you reach the enemy medic. On a positive note, the defending flank can't keep out the attacking flank as easily because there's more room to utilise on the house side. Also, I don't think the changes to the last point make pushing out easier. Backcap hiding spots stay the same, there are still 3 routes to last and most importantly, the attacker's forward spawn is still too close to second.

Alright, I'll take a look at changing this.

You can no longer see in through the door, but there is a sightline if you move up a little on the far left side (defenders perspective). I'm definitely looking at tweaking these sightlines.

Another thing I'm gonna try working with is the light settings.

What you need to do to make pushing OUT of last easier is to switch the forward spawns, make the red team spawn where the blue forward spawn is and make the blue team spawn in the red forward spawn. Its a simple fix for a big problem.

lol if this was done I would end up going to the wrong point every time the first few times I play on it

If this is done, the door should probably be moved. It would seem weird to exit one direction and then ultimately go in another. Although, I guess that could be part of the balance.

I think moving the forward spawn to here would be good. It would make it harder to contest 2nd from the yard, but it wouldn't make 4 man suicides impossible.

I like this better than swapping the forwards. It allows for good jumps to get you in the fight fast, but not as fast as is possible with the current location.

the change in OP looks like a good change

That is literally swapping the forward spawns, though. I like the idea.

I guess that is true, except the door location would be different (which isn't irrelevant)...

TBH if you're looking to make last easier to manage the map itself is solid at its core, the reason it's so hard to push is the amount of space afforded to the defending team to kite ubers (distance).

The last itself would be easier to push out of and push into if the point itself were much thinner.

This could be effected by: moving the right side door (assuming we're looking at second from last) to the left scrunching up the map that way so the last point is smaller and the lobby area easier to navigate with less distance to cover - thus easier to push last and easier to push out of last.

I don't have any mapping skills, but the outside edge of the shack would be a good starting point. Just cut off everything to the right of that shack and scoot the lobby door and the interior of the lobby over accordingly. Some space on the left could also be taken away inside the lobby and on last itself if you *really* wanted to go crazy.

That way when you push out the left most door and the right door are fairly close together and can be cleared quickly. While defending last the opposing team would not have tons of space to run away from an enemy team's uber.

Just a suggestion if you're really in the mood to toy around with things lol.

do you have a DL of the new one you are making?

if it ain't broken why fix it?
don't see what's wrong with something on a map beeing hard to do if you play well you still going to be able to fuck them while pushing out last
it isn't like its impossible

I agree. The map plays well enough at this point that major changes could really be a mistake.

Why should we not try and make a good map better? "It's not too broken so let's not try to improve it at all" is a bad attitude to have. There's no harm in trying, if it doesn't work it can always be reverted.

It's fine. I'd just fix shadows and maybe move the last spawn back.

Adding some transparency (or something else) to make it harder to backcap last from players hiding in dropdown when you're trying to retake second.

At last make it take longer to get into spawn, you can fight and tank damage then change class and be fighting again at full health in 3 seconds or so.

Forward spawn doesn't need major changes, especially if last is easier to attack.

I like chojje's idea of moving the forward spawn to where the arrow is.
Edit: oh, chojje's thread.
I like the OP as well.

uh... So the map wasn't in the final version?

There's going to be some version and file name problems....

cp_snakewater_final1

i wish the map has a better fps

im the dumbest person

There are several bugs which need fixing (teleporter outside map, crates unbalanced on mid, spawnroom missing), so I figured I might as well try to do some balance changes while I'm at it.

I'm not sure when and how I will release the upcoming version, for now I'm sticking to internal versions while I'm making changes. Who knows what the future has in store....;)

I'm really excited about these changes. Keep up the good work!