There is.

#freewarmfront2012

i always argue in favor of gpit because of how crazy the matches can turn out to be. but the simple fact that nobody ever scrims it because no one wants to kind of makes me wonder why we play it.

that being said i think i like it better than metalworks.

get rid if badlands process metalworks keep gpit. put in gpit 3 more times in rotation

Junction is awful. It's basically a giant choke point.

you fail to be aware of the fact that 6s players give maps chances as well. most of our map pool is customs or maps which were adopted before they were stock. the difference is, 6s players don't shove bad maps down eachothers' throats.

Idea:

Because a lot of people still seem to hate Metalworks, maybe replace it with Edifice? There would be more of a reason to scrim both A/D maps then.

or

standin has always been awful
it was so awful it got voted out
nothing about it has changed

why would you consider it

I honestly think the maplist is a good as it ever will be.

I've had fun pugging ediface, maybe that?

gpit roolz

This map was fine and I don't know why it was voted out.

So from this thread I have determined that opinions are actually very mixed on gpit, and that any change to the maplist would be the worst idea ever.

Am I getting this right?

Edit: Better idea: let's put it up for a vote. http://strawpoll.me/176889

.

metalworks isnt a bad map at all lol

But thats wrong.

Can anyone tell me the argument for keeping Gravelpit again?

Edited for clarity.

For keeping it or for removing it?

IMO gpit should stay in because:

It has two arenas (B & C) which provide consistently exciting teamfights that seem to rely more on a team's coordination, strategy, and positioning than their individual aggression.
There is no doubt in my mind that B house and C tower are two of the coolest and well designed "structures" in tf2, on the level of blands spire or granary mid. Every class has interesting opportunities to do damage, get frags, and swing the fight in their favor.

To me, viaduct would be the other side of the coin in that it rewards individual aggression a little more, particularly in regards to scouting, and throughout the season I think these two maps are a welcome variation to the conventional 50/50 blend of disciplined coordination and chaotic aggression offered by 5cp.

Also, the stopwatch scoring system makes for some of the most tense, scrappy fights in tf2 (around C).

Finally, gpit allows some non conventional classes to shine; engie, heavy, sniper, even fucking spy and pyro see more impactful play on gpit than really anywhere else.
Say what you want about pyro--or any of the others--as a class, but the reflect airshot by an aspiring Mad Man on C tower a few lans ago is one of the coolest moments we have ever seen in the history of this game. Off-classes are fun and good for 6v6 in small doses.

I must admit that edifice one-ups gpit because it potentially has three arenas that could provide good, full-team fights. I am in no way opposed to replacing gpit and trying out edifice. Hell, I'm also not opposed to removing gpit and viaduct altogether and just playing 5cp all season.

add a 3rd badlands and a 3rd of another popular map

this was my first thought when slin posted a similar thread on gravelpit week, a while ago. my idea was just, if map rotation stayed the same, have gravelpit as default with the option of 2-3 alternative maps (either CP or koth) that the teams could decide if they would rather play instead.

but then again, I guess teams would run into the same problem of not being able to find other teams to scrim gravelpit on. so, I suppose my two cents would be to let teams decide which map they want to play that particular week.

What option in the poll do we choose if we want variety but don't really care what gets voted out?

I'm not that attached to any map except GO0OLEEWOWSH (awesome matches this week, best map S14), so I don't care what gets voted out (go ahead, downfrag me, but I wouldn't be extremely upset if we took a break from maps like blands and granary where things are getting pretty stale). I just want to see new maps.

Why not a map that's like Mountainlab?
Like a map that goes...
Cap A --> Cap B --> Cap C

So you can't cap B until A is capped, and you can't cap C before B.
If a good custom map of this game mode was made, would it be a good inclusion?

I'd be happy to pick up work on Quay again, but I'll get nowhere without feedback. If you like I can get a new version out soon for you to try.

For the LONGEST time everyone wanted Gravelpit to stay in the rotation. "It's fun for the spectators to watch", "it's fun to play and requires more teamwork than any other map"and so on. Those aren't direct quotes but more or less what has been said countless times.

Now here we are with a bunch of people saying the complete opposite. I'm just going to believe that maybe the group of people who never liked the map are now for some reason voicing their opinion on it.

I like the map, but after the "are we doing A/D wrong?" thread, it made me come to the conclusion that we shouldn't be playing Gravelpit. The difference between my reason and the reason of a lot of other people comes down to the fact that there is no point in playing a mode we're not playing 100% correctly, whether that's because 6 players isn't enough or whatever the reason.

Voting maps in and out shouldn't come from whether or not you like the map, at least not solely that. Literally everything about the map should come into mind. And if you're going to vote out Gravelpit, at least have an actual reason behind it.

Edit: Oh, and for the love of god, if we're going to vote in a map that has been voted out before, can we make sure in the future that we are completely certain there's reason to vote the map out and to never bring it back?

I keep seeing people wanting Yukon, Freight, Warmfront and so on back into rotation (with others supporting the ideas). It would probably be a good idea to give reason behind why we should bring back these maps, and make sure these reasons overshadow the reasons behind why we removed the maps in the first place.

And no, nostalgia isn't a reason. Nostalgia doesn't change the fact that a map like Yukon shouldn't be in rotation. It's way too sniper friendly on all 3 points, though much less so on last compared to mid and second. As much as I don't approve of the idea for certain areas on maps being better for class X than class Y, every map has this in it and I can't use it for an argument so I'll ignore the fact that Yukon's second isn't really the best for scouts. The rollout + initial fight sequence is kind of sloppy, but I'm not really sure how to word this in a way that is easier to understand.

But the fact of the matter is Yukon was played and was removed for good reason. There might be good reasons to play it, but the reasons to have it out are greater.

As a spectator I used to love GPit... but now it seems boring. My opinion on it changed some time in the past couple of seasons when people stopped coming up with new strategies. It's just getting stale, and it probably doesn't accurately test a team's skill (see: R5 coming seconds away from beating Tri Hards). With few teams even building sentries anymore let alone using interesting strats, the appeal for spectators has greatly diminished.

Agreed with Warmfront, i would like to see it in an official season!

this season definitely had the best map rotation. for a few seasons new maps would be tossed in that weren't even finished or just completely atrocious (see standin, cp_ashville) i honestly don't see gpit being replaced next season unless a better map is put in its place. a vast majority of people wanna see it gone, others want it to stay. for those that don't want it, what map would take its place? please don't say standin that is an abomination

^ I would say Edifice, but it's probably only marginally better. Don't know of any other A/D maps that will be ready in time for the mapvote.

We could try a 2nd KOTH, such as Canopy, which has been tested in Invite Pugs at least once.

It seems like about 45% of 6s players/viewers want Gpit out. Assuming this will be true for ESEA players who have Premium during the mapvote, we'll need to find a new map.

defy is right

the argument of gpit's future is whether we have a map to replace it.

Unless another snakewater or process arises (adding these maps were very obvious) then I think we should leave the rotation as it is