Hello Everyone,
Now that the UGC HL Season 11 has come to an exciting finish, UGC is excited to announce a community fundraising drive for our 2014 Highlander Season.
In short, we are organizing this drive to generate cash prizes for players on our top teams. We want to be clear that UGC's take on this effort will be $0.00. 100% of funds donated (minus fees from gofundme.com) will be given to our top 3 platinum teams in 50%, 30%, and 20% distributions.
Since this is our first time trying to organize something like this we are only supporting our NA Platinum Highlander Division. If things go well, we intend to offer this to all our divisions and geographies (including 6v6, EU HL Platinum, etc). As you can imagine we do not know what the future holds for this effort so we would like to start small and work our way up. We know this may be a disappointment to some of our players but please be assured that our goal (if successful) is to expand to include everyone, just like with our other prizes.
Please see the following website for more information about this effort: http://www.ugcleague.com/community_prize.cfm
For this to be successful we need EVERYONE to help spread the word. We have a suggested donation amount of $5.00 per player who is participating in our Highlander season 12. Anything will help. As an added bonus to help encourage donations, we are coordinating donator perks for those who contribute $50.00 or more. With the help of Firefly and Pudding Cup we are organizing Platinum level mentors willing to donate a 1-2 hour mentoring session to those special donators. Please make sure your steamID is included in the comment section of your donation.
Direct Link to Donation Page http://www.gofundme.com/5glzq4
Please post any questions, concerns, or ideas in this thread. We will try to answer them as best we can. You can also email donations@ugcleague.com as well.
Thank you everyone and let's see what our community can do.
UGC
fifty dollars? that is quite a bit of money just to throw at a prize pool with the only incentive being mentoring.
[b]fifty[/b] dollars? that is quite a bit of money just to throw at a prize pool with the only incentive being mentoring.
This is primarily a test pilot - if they made the $ amounts on mentoring too low they'd potentially be responsible for the death of those who signed up to do it as a donator perk lol.
Best of luck UGC :D
This is primarily a test pilot - if they made the $ amounts on mentoring too low they'd potentially be responsible for the death of those who signed up to do it as a donator perk lol.
Best of luck UGC :D
I agree it's a lot. But you don't have to donate that if you don't want to. This is really about testing the waters for how much money people would be willing to put up to sponsor a community league.
Either way though what would you like to see the mentoring number at (20? 30?), or what incentives would you like to see instead?
And yeah we have about 25 mentors which is more than we expected, but we definitely don't wanna burden them to the point where they don't have the time to deliver.
I agree it's a lot. But you don't have to donate that if you don't want to. This is really about testing the waters for how much money people would be willing to put up to sponsor a community league.
Either way though what would you like to see the mentoring number at (20? 30?), or what incentives would you like to see instead?
And yeah we have about 25 mentors which is more than we expected, but we definitely don't wanna burden them to the point where they don't have the time to deliver.
A lot of UGC community members are excited about this, and I think it's a very positive thing for them. Mentoring is always a very popular thing, from what I've seen.
A lot of UGC community members are excited about this, and I think it's a very positive thing for them. Mentoring is always a very popular thing, from what I've seen.
A lot of people already mentor without the $ incentive
A lot of people already mentor without the $ incentive
I don't think you should necessarily see it as buying a mentoring session but rather, helping out UGC/TF2 community. In return, you receive a gift that shows that they appreciate your support.
For the last Tip of the Hats event, I purchased signed items and yet, the players signing them usually do it for free.
I do agree that there should be other perks such as POVs/STVs for less though. I love watching those.
I don't think you should necessarily see it as buying a mentoring session but rather, helping out UGC/TF2 community. In return, you receive a gift that shows that they appreciate your support.
For the last Tip of the Hats event, I purchased signed items and yet, the players signing them usually do it for free.
I do agree that there should be other perks such as POVs/STVs for less though. I love watching those.
Hate to say it, but try not to over-donate. We'll create this ridiculous prize pool for Season 12 that will never be matched in a following season, as each subsequent drive will probably get less and less interest. I can't imagine these $100+ donations are going to be repeated.
Hate to say it, but try not to over-donate. We'll create this ridiculous prize pool for Season 12 that will never be matched in a following season, as each subsequent drive will probably get less and less interest. I can't imagine these $100+ donations are going to be repeated.
Also, if you are playing in platinum and don't donate, gtfo.
Also, if you are playing in platinum and don't donate, gtfo.
Air_fifty dollars? that is quite a bit of money just to throw at a prize pool with the only incentive being mentoring.
Its not exactly the same thing but the i49 donation drive was 100$ for the perk of a 30 min mentoring session afaik
[quote=Air_][b]fifty[/b] dollars? that is quite a bit of money just to throw at a prize pool with the only incentive being mentoring.[/quote]
Its not exactly the same thing but the i49 donation drive was 100$ for the perk of a 30 min mentoring session afaik
smoboHate to say it, but try not to over-donate. We'll create this ridiculous prize pool for Season 12 that will never be matched in a following season, as each subsequent drive will probably get less and less interest. I can't imagine these $100+ donations are going to be repeated.
They're capping the pool at $5k.
[quote=smobo]Hate to say it, but try not to over-donate. We'll create this ridiculous prize pool for Season 12 that will never be matched in a following season, as each subsequent drive will probably get less and less interest. I can't imagine these $100+ donations are going to be repeated.[/quote]
They're capping the pool at $5k.
Unfortunate that there is no PayPal option.
Unfortunate that there is no PayPal option.
pudding_cup
Either way though what would you like to see the mentoring number at (20? 30?), or what incentives would you like to see instead?
personally, I'm not going to give money to this regardless of the incentives offered, so I can't really say anything on that. However, if the point of an incentive is to make people say "I'd rather donate X amount of money than Y amount of money since I'll get stuff for it" I think 50 is at a point where people start saying "wow that's too much for what I get." I can't speak on what number people would see the value in donating more, but personally I think 50 is too much.
HueyLewisAlso, if you are playing in platinum and don't donate, gtfo.
since anyone is obligated to donate anything.
KanecoIts not exactly the same thing but the i49 donation drive was 100$ for the perk of a 30 min mentoring session afaik
That's different in my mind. That was raising money to actually send people to a lan in a different continent. the money was being used for something tangible, and it had a much larger goal with more donators. This ugc drive however, is just a prize pool. Its different when you're donating just so the winner can get some $$$
[quote=pudding_cup]
Either way though what would you like to see the mentoring number at (20? 30?), or what incentives would you like to see instead?
[/quote]
personally, I'm not going to give money to this regardless of the incentives offered, so I can't really say anything on that. However, if the point of an incentive is to make people say "I'd rather donate X amount of money than Y amount of money since I'll get stuff for it" I think 50 is at a point where people start saying "wow that's too much for what I get." I can't speak on what number people would see the value in donating more, but personally I think 50 is too much.
[quote=HueyLewis]Also, if you are playing in platinum and don't donate, gtfo.[/quote]
since anyone is obligated to donate anything.
[quote=Kaneco]
Its not exactly the same thing but the i49 donation drive was 100$ for the perk of a 30 min mentoring session afaik[/quote]
That's different in my mind. That was raising money to actually send people to a lan in a different continent. the money was being used for something tangible, and it had a much larger goal with more donators. This ugc drive however, is just a prize pool. Its different when you're donating just so the winner can get some $$$
Thanks for putting up the article. Its nice that the donation drive is already off to a good start.
Thanks for putting up the article. Its nice that the donation drive is already off to a good start.
I think the donator perk should be at around 25/30 bucks, and I'm saying this as a potential mentor.
I feel like that's somewhat of a sweet-spot where people would be willing to somewhat impulsively put down that money in exchange for that mentoring.
50 dollars is never an impulse purchase unless you're pretty fuckin rich.
Thanks for putting this article up though. :)
I think the donator perk should be at around 25/30 bucks, and I'm saying this as a potential mentor.
I feel like that's somewhat of a sweet-spot where people would be willing to somewhat impulsively put down that money in exchange for that mentoring.
50 dollars is never an impulse purchase unless you're pretty fuckin rich.
Thanks for putting this article up though. :)
I really think we should be targeting people playing in platinum more for the drive. Too much of the language in UGC's post is aimed at others. Mentoring aside, there's little reason for anyone outside outside of plat to donate. Like others have already said, there's no national pride or anything else on the line, and the mentoring price is a bit steep, leading to no real incentive other than pure altruism. Don't get me wrong, it kicks ass if people want to throw in, but in order to be a success the people participating should really be most accountable.. Hence my post above.
Early signs point to there being 7 or 8 teams who'll have a shot at some good money. I think the players on those teams should really lead by example, even if its just $5 or $10 a piece. I'd guess people outside of plat might be more willing to donate knowing that the players with the chance to win aren't getting something for nothing.
I really think we should be targeting people playing in platinum more for the drive. Too much of the language in UGC's post is aimed at others. Mentoring aside, there's little reason for anyone outside outside of plat to donate. Like others have already said, there's no national pride or anything else on the line, and the mentoring price is a bit steep, leading to no real incentive other than pure altruism. Don't get me wrong, it kicks ass if people want to throw in, but in order to be a success the people participating should really be most accountable.. Hence my post above.
Early signs point to there being 7 or 8 teams who'll have a shot at some good money. I think the players on those teams should really lead by example, even if its just $5 or $10 a piece. I'd guess people outside of plat might be more willing to donate knowing that the players with the chance to win aren't getting something for nothing.
Huey, what about a team sponsor, or something? Like a person that would pitch in on behalf of the team, or something?
I don't know.
The other thing would be that we don't want to change the perks too much now, right?
Huey, what about a team sponsor, or something? Like a person that would pitch in on behalf of the team, or something?
I don't know.
The other thing would be that we don't want to change the perks too much now, right?
I can forsee half of the so-called "mentors" putting minimal effort into fulfilling their side of the arrangement: being incredibly hard to contact originally, being incredibly unresponsive to the mentee, being disrespectful of them, being late to the agreed time, only doing one session in total and not making time for others (you really want to help someone improve, you do more than one and you spread it out over time). You saw what happened after i49, some of the donators got fed up of the people who promised to do a few tiny things in return for a free trip to Europe - These guys are playing for like a couple of hundred bucks (maximum each) if they win for a 4 month season (if you include the time practising pre-season) in which you will spend 5+ hours a week practising, you add that up it's a small menial amount for the amount of effort you put in.
Not saying I am against the idea or that getting money for doing something you enjoy is a bad thing, hell no. And at least half of them will do everything they promise and possibly more. But people are naturally lazy, they will promise one thing and fail to deliver, especially if they do not even get something for it. I hope UGC enforce some sort of rule, do all of the perks before distributing money so they can control it if someone fails to deliver.
Also mentoring as a perk insn't the greatest one, I done it loads of time and it is equally frustrating if you can't find the right mentees as if you can't find the right mentors. I'd do it (for free) but I choose not to put my free time towards it at the moment, other things take priority.
I can forsee half of the so-called "mentors" putting minimal effort into fulfilling their side of the arrangement: being incredibly hard to contact originally, being incredibly unresponsive to the mentee, being disrespectful of them, being late to the agreed time, only doing one session in total and not making time for others (you really want to help someone improve, you do more than one and you spread it out over time). You saw what happened after i49, some of the donators got fed up of the people who promised to do a few tiny things in return for a free trip to Europe - These guys are playing for like a couple of hundred bucks (maximum each) if they win for a 4 month season (if you include the time practising pre-season) in which you will spend 5+ hours a week practising, you add that up it's a small menial amount for the amount of effort you put in.
Not saying I am against the idea or that getting money for doing something you enjoy is a bad thing, hell no. And at least half of them will do everything they promise and possibly more. But people are naturally lazy, they will promise one thing and fail to deliver, especially if they do not even get something for it. I hope UGC enforce some sort of rule, do all of the perks before distributing money so they can control it if someone fails to deliver.
Also mentoring as a perk insn't the greatest one, I done it loads of time and it is equally frustrating if you can't find the right mentees as if you can't find the right mentors. I'd do it (for free) but I choose not to put my free time towards it at the moment, other things take priority.
HildrethI can forsee half of the so-called "mentors" putting minimal effort into fulfilling their side of the arrangement: being incredibly hard to contact originally, being incredibly unresponsive to the mentee, being disrespectful of them, being late to the agreed time, only doing one session in total and not making time for others (you really want to help someone improve, you do more than one and you spread it out over time). You saw what happened after i49, some of the donators got fed up of the people who promised to do a few tiny things in return for a free trip to Europe - These guys are playing for like a couple of hundred bucks (maximum each) if they win for a 4 month season (if you include the time practising pre-season) in which you will spend 5+ hours a week practising, you add that up it's a small menial amount for the amount of effort you put in.
Not saying I am against the idea or that getting money for doing something you enjoy is a bad thing, hell no. And at least half of them will do everything they promise and possibly more. But people are naturally lazy, they will promise one thing and fail to deliver, especially if they do not even get something for it. I hope UGC enforce some sort of rule, do all of the perks before distributing money so they can control it if someone fails to deliver.
Also mentoring as a perk insn't the greatest one, I done it loads of time and it is equally frustrating if you can't find the right mentees as if you can't find the right mentors. I'd do it (for free) but I choose not to put my free time towards it at the moment, other things take priority.
What you hypothesize very well may happn, we are breaking new ground here and all we can do is hope people respect themselves enough to follow through with what they promised to do. I can tell you right now if what your saying happens, and 1/2 of mentors do the things you mention, UGC will have to reconsider organizing this effort in the future. I don't think that will happen though. We have two stellar people helping us organize this effort: firefly and pudding cup. They are straight up guys with lots of contacts and experience and we have faith in them, and our players.
Regarding your feelings that our prizes are minimal.. I can't disagree with you there. If you added up all the time it takes to become a top platinum player and divided it by the prize money it comes out to like $0.02 per hour. Isn't that true with all TF2 prize money though? Even ESEA, while providing a lot more cash when you take into account the same amount of time (though lots argue here 6s player put more time in than HL players) and then LAN travel expenses isn't it pretty minimal as well? I wish we had $20,000 to throw at a prize pot but we all need to come to grips with the reality that TF2 is what it is, 6 years after release. We are trying but there are limits.
It's interesting you mention you would help out for free but you have other priorities. Last night I heard one of your friends contacted Forn with a message that you wanted to help out with the donation drive. Sorta weird you would be saying the opposite here, unless your friend has things backwards? Despite our past differences we really could use all the help we can get and I welcome any assistance/advice you could provide to make this effort more successful.
Also to address some of the concerns regarding the $50.00 donation point to receive donator perks. Your concerns are heard and we will take them into account if we do this again. $50 was kind of a round, in between number seemed like the proper choice. It's a difficult balance between picking a reasonable number while not being so low that everybody and their brother receives the perk. Last thing we wanted to do was overburden our mentors and make them dread helping out in the future. So far about %24 of donations have been 50$ and over.. which is encouraging and shows for some people it is worth it. And yes, mentoring isn't this amazing perk but what else do we have to offer that makes sense and doesn't cost money itself? One great suggestion we received on our forums was to do the signed weapon thing. That's something we will think about next year but other ideas are welcome.
[quote=Hildreth]I can forsee half of the so-called "mentors" putting minimal effort into fulfilling their side of the arrangement: being incredibly hard to contact originally, being incredibly unresponsive to the mentee, being disrespectful of them, being late to the agreed time, only doing one session in total and not making time for others (you really want to help someone improve, you do more than one and you spread it out over time). You saw what happened after i49, some of the donators got fed up of the people who promised to do a few tiny things in return for a free trip to Europe - These guys are playing for like a couple of hundred bucks (maximum each) if they win for a 4 month season (if you include the time practising pre-season) in which you will spend 5+ hours a week practising, you add that up it's a small menial amount for the amount of effort you put in.
Not saying I am against the idea or that getting money for doing something you enjoy is a bad thing, hell no. And at least half of them will do everything they promise and possibly more. But people are naturally lazy, they will promise one thing and fail to deliver, especially if they do not even get something for it. I hope UGC enforce some sort of rule, do all of the perks before distributing money so they can control it if someone fails to deliver.
Also mentoring as a perk insn't the greatest one, I done it loads of time and it is equally frustrating if you can't find the right mentees as if you can't find the right mentors. I'd do it (for free) but I choose not to put my free time towards it at the moment, other things take priority.[/quote]
What you hypothesize very well may happn, we are breaking new ground here and all we can do is hope people respect themselves enough to follow through with what they promised to do. I can tell you right now if what your saying happens, and 1/2 of mentors do the things you mention, UGC will have to reconsider organizing this effort in the future. I don't think that will happen though. We have two stellar people helping us organize this effort: firefly and pudding cup. They are straight up guys with lots of contacts and experience and we have faith in them, and our players.
Regarding your feelings that our prizes are minimal.. I can't disagree with you there. If you added up all the time it takes to become a top platinum player and divided it by the prize money it comes out to like $0.02 per hour. Isn't that true with all TF2 prize money though? Even ESEA, while providing a lot more cash when you take into account the same amount of time (though lots argue here 6s player put more time in than HL players) and then LAN travel expenses isn't it pretty minimal as well? I wish we had $20,000 to throw at a prize pot but we all need to come to grips with the reality that TF2 is what it is, 6 years after release. We are trying but there are limits.
It's interesting you mention you would help out for free but you have other priorities. Last night I heard one of your friends contacted Forn with a message that you wanted to help out with the donation drive. Sorta weird you would be saying the opposite here, unless your friend has things backwards? Despite our past differences we really could use all the help we can get and I welcome any assistance/advice you could provide to make this effort more successful.
Also to address some of the concerns regarding the $50.00 donation point to receive donator perks. Your concerns are heard and we will take them into account if we do this again. $50 was kind of a round, in between number seemed like the proper choice. It's a difficult balance between picking a reasonable number while not being so low that everybody and their brother receives the perk. Last thing we wanted to do was overburden our mentors and make them dread helping out in the future. So far about %24 of donations have been 50$ and over.. which is encouraging and shows for some people it is worth it. And yes, mentoring isn't this amazing perk but what else do we have to offer that makes sense and doesn't cost money itself? One great suggestion we received on our forums was to do the signed weapon thing. That's something we will think about next year but other ideas are welcome.
infinite-
What you hypothesize very well may happn, we are breaking new ground here and all we can do is hope people respect themselves enough to follow through with what they promised to do. I can tell you right now if what your saying happens, and 1/2 of mentors do the things you mention, UGC will have to reconsider organizing this effort in the future. I don't think that will happen though. We have two stellar people helping us organize this effort: firefly and pudding cup. They are straight up guys with lots of contacts and experience and we have faith in them, and our players.
Firefly and Pudding Cup are amongst the most upstanding people in the HL community, I agree but this won't affect how people respond if they don't intend to do it. Remember the donation drive for i49 was organised by upstanding people and that didn't stop the players involved being unresponsive. The only way to stop it is to bug them like hell, I don't doubt people will need prompting a lot to fulfill their obligations. The character of one individual won't change the character of several others.
infinite-Regarding your feelings that our prizes are minimal.. I can't disagree with you there. If you added up all the time it takes to become a top platinum player and divided it by the prize money it comes out to like $0.02 per hour. Isn't that true with all TF2 prize money though? Even ESEA, while providing a lot more cash when you take into account the same amount of time (though lots argue here 6s player put more time in than HL players) and then LAN travel expenses isn't it pretty minimal as well? I wish we had $20,000 to throw at a prize pot but we all need to come to grips with the reality that TF2 is what it is, 6 years after release. We are trying but there are limits.
Minimal rewards result in minimal efforts, that is my point - Now ultimately, if you're given a small sum for winning a league and then you get messaged you need to make time to mentor Donator A, Sign weapons for Donator B and you are the sort of person who puts minimal effort into committments, it isn't a motivator - You're looking for reliable people to do this and my experience of top tier TF2 is people sure as hell ain't reliable.
infinite-It's interesting you mention you would help out for free but you have other priorities. Last night I heard one of your friends contacted Forn with a message that you wanted to help out with the donation drive. Sorta weird you would be saying the opposite here, unless your friend has things backwards? Despite our past differences we really could use all the help we can get and I welcome any assistance/advice you could provide to make this effort more successful.
Interesting how every comment you make is a lead on to attempt to destroy the character of the person who opposes your point of view, because trying to address the issues without coming across as a tool is beyond your mental capabilities. I did mention to one of my friends I might be interested, seeing how talking to UGC admins in the past has proven to be akin to talking to a brick wall with patronising graffiti sprayed on it, I haven't bothered to contact anyone. I am guessing my friend you refer to is Elena, she told me she talked to RedRum, but never specified what about and I didn't care enough to ask since I have much more on my plate right now. And no I don't intend to help, if it means working with you I'd rather not.
[quote=infinite-]
What you hypothesize very well may happn, we are breaking new ground here and all we can do is hope people respect themselves enough to follow through with what they promised to do. I can tell you right now if what your saying happens, and 1/2 of mentors do the things you mention, UGC will have to reconsider organizing this effort in the future. I don't think that will happen though. We have two stellar people helping us organize this effort: firefly and pudding cup. They are straight up guys with lots of contacts and experience and we have faith in them, and our players.
[/quote]
Firefly and Pudding Cup are amongst the most upstanding people in the HL community, I agree but this won't affect how people respond if they don't intend to do it. Remember the donation drive for i49 was organised by upstanding people and that didn't stop the players involved being unresponsive. The only way to stop it is to bug them like hell, I don't doubt people will need prompting a lot to fulfill their obligations. The character of one individual won't change the character of several others.
[quote=infinite-]
Regarding your feelings that our prizes are minimal.. I can't disagree with you there. If you added up all the time it takes to become a top platinum player and divided it by the prize money it comes out to like $0.02 per hour. Isn't that true with all TF2 prize money though? Even ESEA, while providing a lot more cash when you take into account the same amount of time (though lots argue here 6s player put more time in than HL players) and then LAN travel expenses isn't it pretty minimal as well? I wish we had $20,000 to throw at a prize pot but we all need to come to grips with the reality that TF2 is what it is, 6 years after release. We are trying but there are limits.[/quote]
Minimal rewards result in minimal efforts, that is my point - Now ultimately, if you're given a small sum for winning a league and then you get messaged you need to make time to mentor Donator A, Sign weapons for Donator B and you are the sort of person who puts minimal effort into committments, it isn't a motivator - You're looking for reliable people to do this and my experience of top tier TF2 is people sure as hell ain't reliable.
[quote=infinite-]It's interesting you mention you would help out for free but you have other priorities. Last night I heard one of your friends contacted Forn with a message that you wanted to help out with the donation drive. Sorta weird you would be saying the opposite here, unless your friend has things backwards? Despite our past differences we really could use all the help we can get and I welcome any assistance/advice you could provide to make this effort more successful. [/quote]
Interesting how every comment you make is a lead on to attempt to destroy the character of the person who opposes your point of view, because trying to address the issues without coming across as a tool is beyond your mental capabilities. I did mention to one of my friends I might be interested, seeing how talking to UGC admins in the past has proven to be akin to talking to a brick wall with patronising graffiti sprayed on it, I haven't bothered to contact anyone. I am guessing my friend you refer to is Elena, she told me she talked to RedRum, but never specified what about and I didn't care enough to ask since I have much more on my plate right now. And no I don't intend to help, if it means working with you I'd rather not.
Firefly and Pudding Cup are amongst the most upstanding people in the HL community, I agree but this won't affect how people respond if they don't intend to do it. Remember the donation drive for i49 was organised by upstanding people and that didn't stop the players involved being unresponsive. The only way to stop it is to bug them like hell, I don't doubt people will need prompting a lot to fulfill their obligations. The character of one individual won't change the character of several others.
Well that's your opinion which is cool, but I still have some hope left and maybe you will be pleasantly surprised. Only time will tell.
Minimal rewards result in minimal efforts, that is my point - Now ultimately, if you're given a small sum for winning a league and then you get messaged you need to make time to mentor Donator A, Sign weapons for Donator B and you are the sort of person who puts minimal effort into committments, it isn't a motivator - You're looking for reliable people to do this and my experience of top tier TF2 is people sure as hell ain't reliable.
Same as above, guess I am more optimistic than you. There are limits to what we can do as a community run league and not for profit. If we charged and profited off our players then we could offer more, but that isnt the model we strive for and there are other leagues which already offer that service.
Interesting how every comment you make is a lead on to attempt to destroy the character of the person who opposes your point of view, because trying to address the issues without coming across as a tool is beyond your mental capabilities. I did mention to one of my friends I might be interested, seeing how talking to UGC admins in the past has proven to be akin to talking to a brick wall with patronising graffiti sprayed on it, I haven't bothered to contact anyone. I am guessing my friend you refer to is Elena, she told me she talked to RedRum, but never specified what about and I didn't care enough to ask since I have much more on my plate right now. And no I don't intend to help, if it means working with you I'd rather not.
I am honestly not trying to criticize.. cause literally last night in a meeting it came up that Elena mentioned you were interested in helping out. Then I see you make a post saying you don't want to help out.. so I was trying to figure out what the true story was. You can make all the colorful criticisms you want but it was a legitimate question backed up by facts. That's fine if you don't want to help.. kinda weird though you would ask through covert channels but openly dismiss the idea in public.
[quote]Firefly and Pudding Cup are amongst the most upstanding people in the HL community, I agree but this won't affect how people respond if they don't intend to do it. Remember the donation drive for i49 was organised by upstanding people and that didn't stop the players involved being unresponsive. The only way to stop it is to bug them like hell, I don't doubt people will need prompting a lot to fulfill their obligations. The character of one individual won't change the character of several others. [/quote]
Well that's your opinion which is cool, but I still have some hope left and maybe you will be pleasantly surprised. Only time will tell.
[quote]Minimal rewards result in minimal efforts, that is my point - Now ultimately, if you're given a small sum for winning a league and then you get messaged you need to make time to mentor Donator A, Sign weapons for Donator B and you are the sort of person who puts minimal effort into committments, it isn't a motivator - You're looking for reliable people to do this and my experience of top tier TF2 is people sure as hell ain't reliable. [/quote]
Same as above, guess I am more optimistic than you. There are limits to what we can do as a community run league and not for profit. If we charged and profited off our players then we could offer more, but that isnt the model we strive for and there are other leagues which already offer that service.
[quote]Interesting how every comment you make is a lead on to attempt to destroy the character of the person who opposes your point of view, because trying to address the issues without coming across as a tool is beyond your mental capabilities. I did mention to one of my friends I might be interested, seeing how talking to UGC admins in the past has proven to be akin to talking to a brick wall with patronising graffiti sprayed on it, I haven't bothered to contact anyone. I am guessing my friend you refer to is Elena, she told me she talked to RedRum, but never specified what about and I didn't care enough to ask since I have much more on my plate right now. And no I don't intend to help, if it means working with you I'd rather not.[/quote]
I am honestly not trying to criticize.. cause literally last night in a meeting it came up that Elena mentioned you were interested in helping out. Then I see you make a post saying you don't want to help out.. so I was trying to figure out what the true story was. You can make all the colorful criticisms you want but it was a legitimate question backed up by facts. That's fine if you don't want to help.. kinda weird though you would ask through covert channels but openly dismiss the idea in public.
infinite-
I am honestly not trying to criticize.. cause literally last night in a meeting it came up that Elena mentioned you were interested in helping out. Then I see you make a post saying you don't want to help out.. so I was trying to figure out what the true story was. You can make all the colorful criticisms you want but it was a legitimate question backed up by facts. That's fine if you don't want to help.. kinda weird though you would ask through covert channels but openly dismiss the idea in public.
I'm sorry but with our past, everything you say and the way you say it can only come across as an attempt to patronize or destroy character, I still remember the times you attacked me personally, my league when the discussion was completely unrelated to it, so focusing on character seems to get my point across better. You have (had) a way of this in the past, I didn't mean any offence but you can't and won't be forgiven by me for your past behaviour lightly. I would help out in this project by means of mentoring/organisation if it didn't involve certain UGC admins especially yourself, not saying they would want to work with me but I certainly don't want to work with them.
I wouldn't mentor people (for free, in my spare time) at the moment because I want to put my time into other things more important, some of my actual friends ask me and I say no as a result. Mentoring people cuts into your free time, makes you lose focus of studying. Also I am not "publicly" stating my intentions, merely talking to you about it since I can't contact you any other way, I don't really care about "public" opinion about me, only what my TF2 friends think of me. I never actually asked her to ask you, I merely remember stating I might consider it, upon consideration I don't want to do, I wish good luck in the success, I hope people are realistic about their committments to mentoring and promising perks. I might throw in a small donation for a perk, perhaps some mentoring on Pyro.
[quote=infinite-]
I am honestly not trying to criticize.. cause literally last night in a meeting it came up that Elena mentioned you were interested in helping out. Then I see you make a post saying you don't want to help out.. so I was trying to figure out what the true story was. You can make all the colorful criticisms you want but it was a legitimate question backed up by facts. That's fine if you don't want to help.. kinda weird though you would ask through covert channels but openly dismiss the idea in public.[/quote]
I'm sorry but with our past, everything you say and the way you say it can only come across as an attempt to patronize or destroy character, I still remember the times you attacked me personally, my league when the discussion was completely unrelated to it, so focusing on character seems to get my point across better. You have (had) a way of this in the past, I didn't mean any offence but you can't and won't be forgiven by me for your past behaviour lightly. I would help out in this project by means of mentoring/organisation if it didn't involve certain UGC admins especially yourself, not saying they would want to work with me but I certainly don't want to work with them.
I wouldn't mentor people (for free, in my spare time) at the moment because I want to put my time into other things more important, some of my actual friends ask me and I say no as a result. Mentoring people cuts into your free time, makes you lose focus of studying. Also I am not "publicly" stating my intentions, merely talking to you about it since I can't contact you any other way, I don't really care about "public" opinion about me, only what my TF2 friends think of me. I never actually asked her to ask you, I merely remember stating I might consider it, upon consideration I don't want to do, I wish good luck in the success, I hope people are realistic about their committments to mentoring and promising perks. I might throw in a small donation for a perk, perhaps some mentoring on Pyro.
[img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif?1318992465[/img]
Hildrethfocusing on character seems to get my point across better
No, it really doesn't. You made some good points in here about the potential problems with the perks, and now this has become about yours and infinites personal bullshit.
[quote=Hildreth]focusing on character seems to get my point across better[/quote]
No, it really doesn't. You made some good points in here about the potential problems with the perks, and now this has become about yours and infinites personal bullshit.
HildrethYou saw what happened after i49, some of the donators got fed up of the people who promised to do a few tiny things in return for a free trip to Europe
http://www.wdel.com/features/shotsfired.jpg
CYA HRG
[quote=Hildreth]You saw what happened after i49, some of the donators got fed up of the people who promised to do a few tiny things in return for a free trip to Europe[/quote]
[img]http://www.wdel.com/features/shotsfired.jpg[/img]
CYA HRG
Once I get payed, I'm planning on donating $20 which I consider fair since I will be playing in the upcoming season and have a chance to win some money.
Once I get payed, I'm planning on donating $20 which I consider fair since I will be playing in the upcoming season and have a chance to win some money.
I don't think people who are donating 50+$ to the fundraiser are dying to get the mentoring session. I think the motivation to donate whatever you can comes mostly from the desire to promote the league and TF2 in general. It'd be nice if a cash prize would promote more desire to compete for UGC players in gold/silver and more dedication to practicing and improving.
If nothing else I think UGC has earned a bit of support from the community for providing a great free league for so many years, an opportunity for many pubbers to transition into a competitive format.
I don't think people who are donating 50+$ to the fundraiser are dying to get the mentoring session. I think the motivation to donate whatever you can comes mostly from the desire to promote the league and TF2 in general. It'd be nice if a cash prize would promote more desire to compete for UGC players in gold/silver and more dedication to practicing and improving.
If nothing else I think UGC has earned a bit of support from the community for providing a great free league for so many years, an opportunity for many pubbers to transition into a competitive format.
Disregard my other statements, I have an idea that might help the fundraiser - can someone add me to friends?
Disregard my other statements, I have an idea that might help the fundraiser - can someone add me to friends?
A possible perk - Take a small amount of the prize pool (maybe 5%) and create a Luck of the Draw lottery. Award this to a random donator who isn't in Platinum and has contributed at least $20 (or some other amount if $20 is too low / high). We could make it into an event too. The Platinum playoffs are always casted, when the grand finals take place we can announce the winner during half-time.
We could do other things with this amount as well. We could use it to buy keys and give back to donators (that way more than one person has a chance to win). Just thinking out loud here, if anyone has any other ideas feel free to add. I realize this hurts the final prize pool a bit, but I think it's a reasonable tradeoff at minimal cost. Gives something back to the people that might not even be able to compete in Platinum but still gave money towards it.
A possible perk - Take a small amount of the prize pool (maybe 5%) and create a Luck of the Draw lottery. Award this to a random donator who isn't in Platinum and has contributed at least $20 (or some other amount if $20 is too low / high). We could make it into an event too. The Platinum playoffs are always casted, when the grand finals take place we can announce the winner during half-time.
We could do other things with this amount as well. We could use it to buy keys and give back to donators (that way more than one person has a chance to win). Just thinking out loud here, if anyone has any other ideas feel free to add. I realize this hurts the final prize pool a bit, but I think it's a reasonable tradeoff at minimal cost. Gives something back to the people that might not even be able to compete in Platinum but still gave money towards it.