removal

Remove the reserve shooter from the class entirely and replace it with something that isn't obnoxious gimmicky selfish bullshit
Degreaser getting the flamethrower's pre-buffed airblast
Flaregun raising weapon switch time or actually any change at all that would make it not be a viable axtinguisher replacement/alternative
Give airblast some kind of falloff so that scraping a scout with the tail end of the blast doesn't give the same kind of blast as destroying them at point blank with it
Fix the double jump airblast airstall bug
Fix the class's weight/mass so that they can't surf rockets literally better than scouts can into my medics and demomen
Buff the escape plan so that the powerjack isn't literally absolutely better in every single way other than a fraction of a second of rollout time
Third degree can't crit or be crit boosted

Any buffs or nerfs that you shoehorn into the flame damage from flamethrowers themselves will only make the class even more obnoxious to play against. The status quo of flame and afterburn damage is the way it is for very finnicky balance reasons. It's one of the few aspects of the class that valve actually managed to get right after tinkering with it for long enough.

Is this a fair comparison though?

Powerjack is better than EP, sure. But pyro as a whole is way worse, and has shit mobility.

Its like asking to buff the flamethrower cause its so much worse than the rocket launcher. or increasing the soldiers movespeed cause its slower than scout.

its more that pyro gets 100s of unlocks that are all upgrades to default where as every other class gets shit thats either useless or slightly better or just as good.

If some class got a projectile weapon that could get headshots, and it were better than the huntsman, would that be fair to the sniper class?
That's the same as what you're implying. Soldier IS A MOBILITY CLASS, so he should NOT be screwed over for using mobility that is available to him. The powerjack increases the mobility of the pyro class, WHO IS NOT A MOBILITY CLASS, practically for free, AND DOES MORE. I don't care about the latter as long as the former doesn't happen, but when the former is happening then the latter has no right to. I don't want to screw over the powerjack because I think that it does improve the game, but there's no reason that the powerjack should be "better" than the escape plan in what the escape plan AND THE ESCAPE PLAN'S CLASS have inherent to them.

Pyro's bad mobility is part of the class's design. It is a balancing factor. Giving the pyro a better version of a mobility utility that another class has, in the name of making the pyro class better, is a sham.

pyro with powerjack is still nowhere near as mobile as a soldier who can rocketjump. having one pyro melee unlock that is better than one soldier melee unlock does not break the game

Not super sure what youre trying to say here. Youre saying that pyros bad mobility is a balancing factor of the class, but the powerjack (which is p much a 100% upgrade) is fine? And that the soldier needs an buff to a melee that has been nerfed 3 times in a row and is STILL used the most of any soldier melee to be on par with pyro?

petition valve to remove minicrits with escape plan

where's cole

Yes, thanks for misrepresenting my argument. The problem isn't the powerjack being so good. The problem is the escape plan being useless except for the sole purpose of getting to the middle point without rocketjumping. The powerjack is a mobility utility that is an upgrade to a mobility class's equivalent mobility utility.

The pyro is, in many cases that really are not obscure or rare or very situational, better than soldier at running away on foot. This is not a case of "the powerjack is better than the escape plan sometimes". This is a matter of "the powerjack is better than the escape plan except for extremely rare circumstances".

Soldiers need to: make themself a target, be on low health, probably not able to rocketjump without putting themselves at even lower health, and forfeit their ability to quickly shoot anyone who's chasing them. Pyros don't have any of that when they use the powerjack.

Yes, soldier can rocketjump. Yes, soldier has more choice in general in how to deal with situations where he's screwed. No, this is not a bad thing -- that's the whole purpose of the class. Rapid adaptability and the ability to jump from situation to situation with a middleground between other class's abilities. A worse version of the heavy's tankiness, a worse version of the demoman's mobility, a worse version of the scout's utility, and a combination of minor aspects of other classes that make an extremely versatile thing.

The equalizer's original concept was based on (or at least extremely similar to) the trading health for mobility and advantage aspect of rocketjumping. It was too good because it was a passive version of it, so they split it. Now the powerjack is basically a better version of the "nerfed three or four times" escape plan, because it's on a class with less health that's supposed to be good at melee in the first place?

Tell me, what would be so bad about the soldier having the powerjack? The fact that he can rocketjump into people with it? But then the only unreasonable thing there is the health on kill, so remove that. Now what's wrong with it? The fact that he gets mobility for free despite being a class that's not supposed to get mobility for free? Okay, so tie its speed bonus to your health. Now what's wrong with it? The fact that a versatile combat class has the option to use their melee weapon better than their stock melee when they're easy to kill? I don't really get it, but if you really don't like that, reduce its damage. Now what's wrong with it? It annoys part of the playerbase because a versatile combat class can escape situations where their enemy didn't fully engage them?

I'm not mad about the powerjack. I'm mad about how valve seems to treat the powerjack and the escape plan in comparison to eachother. I already said this. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Trying to compare the powerjack and the escape plan is really an apples vs... well ok maybe not oranges but definitely at least like pears or something.

An escape plan solly at full speed goes faster than a powerjack pyro. Yes, the pyro can go faster at other speeds, but then the soldier has an advantage that the pyro doesn't have - he probably has enough health to rocket jump and increase his mobility both vertically and horizontally. Notably, the pyro can never improve his vertical mobility, and RJing is still way, way faster than escape plan. Pyro can never have the mobility that soldier provides, you're comparing two unlocks but not looking at the class as a whole.

Besides why are you complaining about an honestly pretty well balanced weapon like the powerjack when you could spend more time worrying about the rest of the valid points in your post because I'll admit I consciously abuse the fuck out of everything at my disposal on the class and I can tell you there's a lot wrong with it

Everyone's a comedian~

My goal, ultimately, is to address that. I'll be making WWYLS-threads on each class, over time. I'm just starting with Pyro because I like it~

Change airblast to function similar to rocket knockback. Currently if I airblast a scout in the face he will lift off the ground. A rocket will lift a scout off the ground only if I shoot his feet. If a scout is firmly planted on the ground and I airblast him in the face it should have no effect, just as all other knockbacks work. If a scout's already in the air and I airblast him in the face he should get knocked straight back. Essentially airblast should require a lot more accuracy to get the desired knockback effect. And of course keep the projectile reflection.

remove afterburn

remove airblast

remove weapons that crit/minicrit

k

i have a few ideas
-Remove minicrits from reflect damage (wareya's idea of having that be the perk for the flamethrower is a good idea)
-Change airblast to be knockback rather than trapping them into an arc
-Powerjack damage taken needs to be a passive increase (of 10% or 15%)
-Flaregun should only deal full-crits at long range (2x flamethrower reach sounds about right?), mini-crits at short range.

Sacrificing the original principles of the pyro class is fine, because the pyro class was extremely flawed. But they didn't make the pyro class into the kind of class where it makes sense to have more mobility than a mobile class. Yes, they can make pyro a class where mobility isn't their problem, but it doesn't make sense to turn them into a class where mobility is their benefit. I hope you understand what I mean now. It's not black and white.

The reason the escape plan is the most used of any soldier melee isn't the fact that it's overpowered. Take a look at all the other melees for soldier. None of them, except MAYBE the disciplinary action, are anywhere NEAR as good as the escape plan. I'm not even talking about versatility, or power, or utility, but just general goodness. The disciplinary action is good, but pubs don't really use it that much because it's a very selfless weapon, and it's basically a sidegrade if you're using it as a weapon. That's not a good combination. People like using selfish weapons like the market gardener and (to a lesser extent) the chargin' targe.

The reasons the escape plan is the most equipped melee are just like the reasons for equipping a melee on any other class. "Can I personally get things done with this? Is it useful in more than just a handful of situations? Am I sacrificing something else if I used this weapon?" If you made soldier's other melees appeal to pubs in the way that the escape plan does, you'd see a lot more equipping of other weapons. Maybe if you merged the discipinary action and the equalizer. Though I'm sure valve would never merge weapons at this point.

Good luck getting that

Tbh the only reason airblast is stupid is lack of air control, if air control after airblast was implemented in the physics it would be a whole lot less irritating

Exactly. Fighting back after getting airblasted is really difficult.

I'll probably be able to remove the stun attached to airblast, but I don't think SourceMod will let me do any of the other suggestions regarding it without attaching code to every time every player spawns any kind of entity; bullet, projectile, building, or particle. That'd be hell for the server to process. ^^;

Okay, but do you think even that is true? Mobility on the scout doesnt just mean he gets places faster, but his movement is unpredictable. Mobility on the soldier means taking high ground, jumping into fights and escaping at a moments notice. the powerjack is something like the GRU, where it is only really useful in getting to places. The mobility it provides doesnt make the pyro better in combat like the scout or soldier mobility.

If i can hang my hat about pyro, I think the problem is how he has such an overwhelming advantage at very close range. Yes, different classes should be stronger in different situations, but most classes want to fight in close range anyway. Its the same sort of deal as heavy. Fights start to become kind of binary: did you get in his effective range or not? There are other hangups like afterburn, but imo that is the biggest problem with pyro as a combat class.

The dominant strategy for scout vs. pyro is to just stay out of range and hit him with 40 damage shots until he dies. Doesnt sound especially fun.

Weapon attributes can't be altered to produce the same effects?

I've not seen anything in the official master list of attributes that would allow me to change how airblasts work, aside from disabling them or affecting their cost.

WAIT, NEVERMIND. HOLY CRAP, SOME OF THESE LOOK FUN.

Just curious what you mean by air control. Everyone in the air is subject to the exact same air physics. Airblast does not remove the ability to air-strafe.

I think there are 2 issues with the airblast: 1st, it doesn't have any falloff so getting hit by the edge of it is just as bad as getting hit in the face with it, and 2nd, it ignores your current velocity and resets your velocity to a fixed value regardless of what it was before.

I have to disagree. Being a seasoned highlander player, I know what good Pyros are capable of. Thanks to the degreaser, it is possible for a pyro to take the powerjack out for a fraction of a second, then jump, and essentially be "combat ready" while also having a 15% speed boost.

The heavy's GRU? First it caused him damage, but now it causes minicrits that persist for a few seconds. This causes the Heavy to be vulnerable if he tries to use them near a combat situation. On top of that, the minigun has a spin-up time which makes combat readiness and quick response even more difficult. Switching off of your gloves and spinning up is easily long enough for a flanking scout to 3-shot you with minicrits.

Pyro is able to apply this 15% speed boost in combat, which allows him to outrun most classes and shut down their movement. I had a few more points to make but I've got to get to class.

getting airblasted against anything has the same effect as being juggled straight up by a rocket, you can strafe all you want but you're not really going anywhere

I think the double jump bug is the most significant thing here.

What is this bug?

I call it a bug but it's likely intended, when you double jump just after being airblasted, you get no horizontal movement and become trapped in a vertical arc the air. Easy pickings.

Please keep me posted i love goofy shit