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Why does aiming require so much warmup?
1
#1
0 Frags +

After seeing some of my old juggling videos my teammate encouraged me to get back into it. I decided to give it a go, so I grabbed my balls (lol) and after 5 minutes I could handle them nearly as well as I did last time, which was at least 6 months ago.

This made me think about why has my aim required a solid 1 hour warmup every single day since I basically started a year ago. The same mouse that felt just perfect for my hand last night feels heavy and out of control.

I haven't made any major changes to my setup , which I think I have perfected by now: a sensitivity I feel comfortable with, no acceleration, Finalmouse 2015SE, 120Hz monitor, solid fps and a huge mousemat.

I'm fairly sure I am not alone with this problem and I'd like to hear to hear your experiences, thoughts and maybe even some solutions.

After seeing some of my old [url=https://youtu.be/85HfH9-XvyU]juggling videos[/url] my teammate encouraged me to get back into it. I decided to give it a go, so I grabbed my balls (lol) and after 5 minutes I could handle them nearly as well as I did last time, which was at least 6 months ago.

This made me think about why has my aim required a solid 1 hour warmup every single day since I basically started a year ago. The same mouse that felt just perfect for my hand last night feels heavy and out of control.

I haven't made any major changes to my setup , which I think I have perfected by now: a sensitivity I feel comfortable with, no acceleration, Finalmouse 2015SE, 120Hz monitor, solid fps and a huge mousemat.

I'm fairly sure I am not alone with this problem and I'd like to hear to hear your experiences, thoughts and maybe even some solutions.
2
#2
25 Frags +

i dont know about your aim but ur 1 pretty boy

i dont know about your aim but ur 1 pretty boy
3
#3
6 Frags +

That's interesting, for me, when I take like a few days or a week break, my projectile and hitscan aims seem to be on target. Any longer of a stretch not not playing would effect me negatively. I think sometimes when I practice practice practice, I take it too serious and the mental F***-ups mess me up more than my physical abilities in aiming. But I tend to do better warming up my hs in pubs and applying it to comp oppose to mge or dm servers, A lot of it may have to do with my being careful with positioning oppose to going balls deep like you normally do in dm or mge servers..

It's a funny thing, I'm gonna do some academic research and see if we can find a scientific reason for this phenomena and I'll get back to you!
Great question and observation.

That's interesting, for me, when I take like a few days or a week break, my projectile and hitscan aims seem to be on target. Any longer of a stretch not not playing would effect me negatively. I think sometimes when I practice practice practice, I take it too serious and the mental F***-ups mess me up more than my physical abilities in aiming. But I tend to do better warming up my hs in pubs and applying it to comp oppose to mge or dm servers, A lot of it may have to do with my being careful with positioning oppose to going balls deep like you normally do in dm or mge servers..

It's a funny thing, I'm gonna do some academic research and see if we can find a scientific reason for this phenomena and I'll get back to you!
Great question and observation.
4
#4
1 Frags +

I just stopped playing for like a week and I can't hit shit

I just stopped playing for like a week and I can't hit shit
5
#5
40 Frags +

Watched video and I'm pretty sure you had three hands at some point there

Watched video and I'm pretty sure you had three hands at some point there
6
#6
1 Frags +

perhaps you're over thinking it

also consider that good aim take years to develop, and seeing as you have only spent a year or so using your mouse, you might not have consistent aim/mechanics that you are trying to warm up

perhaps you're over thinking it

also consider that good aim take years to develop, and seeing as you have only spent a year or so using your mouse, you might not have consistent aim/mechanics that you are trying to warm up
7
#7
1 Frags +
rshadesperhaps you're over thinking it

also consider that good aim take years to develop, and seeing as you have only spent a year or so using your mouse, you might not have consistent aim/mechanics that you are trying to warm up

It is perfectly plausible that I'm simply not good enough, but I certainly have practiced aiming more than juggling. That is 500 hours of ambassador sniping + 500 hours of competitive scout versus maybe 200-400h of juggling over a period of 2 years. I'm also convinced that the sheer amount of practice I've had on aiming hasn't gone to waste. Once I've warmed up and not choking of anxiety, my scout aim is not anything to joke about.

[quote=rshades]perhaps you're over thinking it

also consider that good aim take years to develop, and seeing as you have only spent a year or so using your mouse, you might not have consistent aim/mechanics that you are trying to warm up[/quote]

It is perfectly plausible that I'm simply not good enough, but I certainly have practiced aiming more than juggling. That is 500 hours of ambassador sniping + 500 hours of competitive scout versus maybe 200-400h of juggling over a period of 2 years. I'm also convinced that the sheer amount of practice I've had on aiming hasn't gone to waste. Once I've warmed up and not choking of anxiety, my scout aim is not anything to joke about.
8
#8
1 Frags +
Kond3P not choking of anxiety.

this part might have more to do with it than you needing 1 hour of warmup, maybe try doing something for 10 minutes that relaxes you beforehand, or do 10 minutes of stretching, and then get into some tf2 warmup and see if the time needed to hit shots lessens

[quote=Kond3P] not choking of anxiety.[/quote]

this part might have more to do with it than you needing 1 hour of warmup, maybe try doing something for 10 minutes that relaxes you beforehand, or do 10 minutes of stretching, and then get into some tf2 warmup and see if the time needed to hit shots lessens
9
#9
35 Frags +

the difference stems from the physical definitions of fine and gross motor control.

juggling, among other skill sets that can primarily be analyzed with composite body groups, is a gross motor activity that is improved by understanding macro-dynamic and macro-energetic muscle motion. proper execution comes from understanding general manipulation of the body group rather than its components.

in the context of computer games, aiming, regardless of sensitivity & state of control (consciousness vs subconsciousness), requires much more precise hand-eye coordination & ultimately requires much more fine motor control than gross motor control during most instants in the motion. one of the biggest factors that humans have to differentiate themselves from other mammals is fine motor control; we allocate most of our mental resources towards its mastery.

with that said, aiming is a complex subject; aiming in the context of computer gaming is analyzed differently from how jugglers' aim. when you discuss the physical concept of aim, you have to rationalize the scope of the activity & the ability to discuss the topic using composite body groups versus individual bodies. in the case of gaming, you're not simply manipulating a composite body; you have to look at each subsystem and identify each point of failure (energy leech). as such, you would have to consider the various forces interacting with the mouse & the energy of the mouse-mousepad system, hand-mouse system, and arm-hand system. as a tip, one concept that might be tripping you up is the conservation of energy & its consequences; you have to account for nonconservative forces (friction) leeching energy from the conservative forces in the entire system.

the main point i'm trying to make is that there are various (non-constant) nonconservative forces leeching energy from the system (friction from the mousepad on the mouse) and/or altering the motion in some fashion. your goal is to identify those forces and minimize their effects (a few examples are friction, mouse stability (which may be better analyzed through the computer science and electrical engineering disciplines), hand stability, finger stability, arm stability, elbow stability, etc). unfortunately, given our biological constraints, fine motor control has too many uncertainties to be perfectly stabilized. to improve your aim, work towards approaching equilibrium, but don't expect to actually reach it.

biophysics is a pretty neat field; both small-scale (fine motor control) and large-scale (gross motor control) phenomena can't be adequately explained with kinematics. it can get pretty complicated!

the difference stems from the physical definitions of fine and gross motor control.

juggling, among other skill sets that can primarily be analyzed with composite body groups, is a gross motor activity that is improved by understanding macro-dynamic and macro-energetic muscle motion. proper execution comes from understanding general manipulation of the body group rather than its components.

in the context of computer games, aiming, regardless of sensitivity & state of control (consciousness vs subconsciousness), requires much more precise hand-eye coordination & ultimately requires much more fine motor control than gross motor control during most instants in the motion. one of the biggest factors that humans have to differentiate themselves from other mammals is fine motor control; we allocate most of our mental resources towards its mastery.

with that said, aiming is a complex subject; aiming in the context of computer gaming is analyzed differently from how jugglers' aim. when you discuss the physical concept of aim, you have to rationalize the scope of the activity & the ability to discuss the topic using composite body groups versus individual bodies. in the case of gaming, you're not simply manipulating a composite body; you have to look at each subsystem and identify each point of failure (energy leech). as such, you would have to consider the various forces interacting with the mouse & the energy of the mouse-mousepad system, hand-mouse system, and arm-hand system. as a tip, one concept that might be tripping you up is the conservation of energy & its consequences; you have to account for nonconservative forces (friction) leeching energy from the conservative forces in the entire system.

the main point i'm trying to make is that there are various (non-constant) nonconservative forces leeching energy from the system (friction from the mousepad on the mouse) and/or altering the motion in some fashion. your goal is to identify those forces and minimize their effects (a few examples are friction, mouse stability (which may be better analyzed through the computer science and electrical engineering disciplines), hand stability, finger stability, arm stability, elbow stability, etc). unfortunately, given our biological constraints, fine motor control has too many uncertainties to be perfectly stabilized. to improve your aim, work towards approaching equilibrium, but don't expect to actually reach it.

biophysics is a pretty neat field; both small-scale (fine motor control) and large-scale (gross motor control) phenomena can't be adequately explained with kinematics. it can get pretty complicated!
10
#10
3 Frags +
joshuawnexcellent analogy containing fancy words

What do you think is going on in the brain during warming up for games compared to juggling? Some different or more complex neural connections activating?

[quote=joshuawn]excellent analogy containing fancy words[/quote]

What do you think is going on in the brain during warming up for games compared to juggling? Some different or more complex neural connections activating?
11
#11
13 Frags +

Josh can you just follow me around and explain stuff to me. I feel smarter every time I read your posts.

Josh can you just follow me around and explain stuff to me. I feel smarter every time I read your posts.
12
#12
2 Frags +

check out Dr. Levi's videos, he seems to really care about gamers health, and peoples health in general rather than just g4m3r str3tch3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhH2YeQ40A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhH2YeQ40A

i reccommend, warm up for just 10 minutes, this way you dont tire yourself out, warming up for longer may lead to fatigue in your hand, after wards, do these strecthes and than if you have time warm up for another 10 minutes maximum. These have actually made me feel much looser and less pain with my carpal tunnel / first dorsal interosseous muscles, before I used to have so much pain in between my thumb and index finger, after doing these stretches, Ive actually felt much better.

check out Dr. Levi's videos, he seems to really care about gamers health, and peoples health in general rather than just g4m3r str3tch3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhH2YeQ40A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhH2YeQ40A

i reccommend, warm up for just 10 minutes, this way you dont tire yourself out, warming up for longer may lead to fatigue in your hand, after wards, do these strecthes and than if you have time warm up for another 10 minutes maximum. These have actually made me feel much looser and less pain with my carpal tunnel / first dorsal interosseous muscles, before I used to have so much pain in between my thumb and index finger, after doing these stretches, Ive actually felt much better.
13
#13
2 Frags +
joshuawninteresting stuff

I've noticed there's an incredibly strong correlation between how much I'm practicing fencing and how good my aim is. I don't know how much you know about fencing, but there's definitely a mix of fine and gross motor control (I fence epee, so more fine motor control than the other weapons). When I'm in practice, my right forearm is actually much, much larger than my left, because of the amount of grip strength needed for continuous and precise point control.

Is this connection just a placebo, or is it plausibly a causal relationship?

[quote=joshuawn]interesting stuff[/quote]

I've noticed there's an incredibly strong correlation between how much I'm practicing fencing and how good my aim is. I don't know how much you know about fencing, but there's definitely a mix of fine and gross motor control (I fence epee, so more fine motor control than the other weapons). When I'm in practice, my right forearm is actually much, much larger than my left, because of the amount of grip strength needed for continuous and precise point control.

Is this connection just a placebo, or is it plausibly a causal relationship?
14
#14
-19 Frags +

I couldn't play for a week and when I came back my first scrim I was able to do 200+ dpm

I think it just depends on who you are

I couldn't play for a week and when I came back my first scrim I was able to do 200+ dpm

I think it just depends on who you are
15
#15
3 Frags +

I actually feel like I do better the less I play any FPS outside of scrims and matches. My hands get tired very easily.

I actually feel like I do better the less I play any FPS outside of scrims and matches. My hands get tired very easily.
16
#16
2 Frags +

I'm old, 30 minutes a day or I'm more shit than usual.

I'm old, 30 minutes a day or I'm more shit than usual.
17
#17
2 Frags +
Kond3Pjoshuawnexcellent analogy containing fancy words
What do you think is going on in the brain during warming up for games compared to juggling? Some different or more complex neural connections activating?

I think juggling is more similar to rocket/sticky jumping than aiming and dodging. When your juggling, you have some kind of plan on how you gonna throw the next ball and your brain can predict what will happen when you do it. It's the same thing when playing jump maps - it's about how precise you can execute each jump and link them together. Aiming, however, is more unpredictable, you don't know if your opponent is gonna move left or right, or stay still, so your brain can't plan ahead.

[quote=Kond3P][quote=joshuawn]excellent analogy containing fancy words[/quote]

What do you think is going on in the brain during warming up for games compared to juggling? Some different or more complex neural connections activating?[/quote]

I think juggling is more similar to rocket/sticky jumping than aiming and dodging. When your juggling, you have some kind of plan on how you gonna throw the next ball and your brain can predict what will happen when you do it. It's the same thing when playing jump maps - it's about how precise you can execute each jump and link them together. Aiming, however, is more unpredictable, you don't know if your opponent is gonna move left or right, or stay still, so your brain can't plan ahead.
18
#18
-7 Frags +

look mate. Sometimes people think their aim is of or on but in my experience its just luck. Sometimes i play a game fresh of the boat AMAZING sometimes HORRIBLE sometimes after some warmup AMAZING sometimes HORRIBLE. the only thing i know is that if you play for 7 hours every day ur gonna get burned out. like. its not gonna b fun mate

look mate. Sometimes people think their aim is of or on but in my experience its just luck. Sometimes i play a game fresh of the boat AMAZING sometimes HORRIBLE sometimes after some warmup AMAZING sometimes HORRIBLE. the only thing i know is that if you play for 7 hours every day ur gonna get burned out. like. its not gonna b fun mate
19
#19
3 Frags +

that's what you call (in)consistency, not luck. know what you need to work on and work on it.

that's what you call (in)consistency, not luck. know what you need to work on and work on it.
20
#20
3 Frags +

I'm not 100% sure but my personal guess would be that something like juggling would become a very repetitive motion. If you get used to throwing the balls at a certain speed then you could easily juggle from just muscle memory. With aiming in games it's not as easy because even though you're making the same movements over and over again you'll be aiming at different parts of the screen all the time and it's a much more complex process than just say throwing/catching a ball because there's some thought going into where to aim etc.

I'm not 100% sure but my personal guess would be that something like juggling would become a very repetitive motion. If you get used to throwing the balls at a certain speed then you could easily juggle from just muscle memory. With aiming in games it's not as easy because even though you're making the same movements over and over again you'll be aiming at different parts of the screen all the time and it's a much more complex process than just say throwing/catching a ball because there's some thought going into where to aim etc.
21
#21
2 Frags +

Thats definitely a good point, aiming is a lot more reaction/adjustment based as a skill whereas juggling is almost entirely memorized. Another thing that should be considered is the tolerance for error. Depending on your sensitivity, you might have a half-centimeter or less of tolerance to be roughly firing at your target, but when juggling you could be off center by as much as 4-5 centimeters and still be able to easily catch the ball.

Thats definitely a good point, aiming is a lot more reaction/adjustment based as a skill whereas juggling is almost entirely memorized. Another thing that should be considered is the tolerance for error. Depending on your sensitivity, you might have a half-centimeter or less of tolerance to be roughly firing at your target, but when juggling you could be off center by as much as 4-5 centimeters and still be able to easily catch the ball.
22
#22
0 Frags +

it definitely doesnt

it definitely doesnt
23
#23
0 Frags +
niteThats definitely a good point, aiming is a lot more reaction/adjustment based as a skill whereas juggling is almost entirely memorized. Another thing that should be considered is the tolerance for error. Depending on your sensitivity, you might have a half-centimeter or less of tolerance to be roughly firing at your target, but when juggling you could be off center by as much as 4-5 centimeters and still be able to easily catch the ball.

unless ur chingoo and u use like 40 inches/360

[quote=nite]Thats definitely a good point, aiming is a lot more reaction/adjustment based as a skill whereas juggling is almost entirely memorized. Another thing that should be considered is the tolerance for error. Depending on your sensitivity, you might have a half-centimeter or less of tolerance to be roughly firing at your target, but when juggling you could be off center by as much as 4-5 centimeters and still be able to easily catch the ball.[/quote]

unless ur chingoo and u use like 40 inches/360
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