We all know how flawed the 5cp format is, it is stalematey, unfun to watch or play (IMO) and is getting very repetitive. Koth on the other hand is much more enjoyable and is open to more classes, strategies and can never get stalematey because it encourages pushing. Attack defend is a pretty solid gamemode but since most if not all of its maps were made back in the days when valve thought more "chokepoints=more fun" it is considered pretty bad but it has the potential to become the new gamemode since its less stalematey, more diverse in classes and strategies and with the right map design, more fun. Map creators have been making a ton of koth and A/D maps but most of them are casual orientated. We need them to consider that these gamemodes can make for a more fun, spectator friendly, and competitive 6s game.
Getting more maps should not be the primary focus. it is better to have a few new good maps than a lot of new bad maps
idk about a/d i feel like everyone will run an engie at one point and make sigafoos cock rockhard
i have never played gpit in comp scenario but i'm pretty sure teams just runned engi to defend the first 2 points
idk if thats less stalematey or more fun to you
also the 6s koth meta is all about one map and one map only, product, we've had coalplant and ashville in the past and we got rid of them because people liked viaduct more so
i don't think "need" is the word you're looking for boy
i have never played gpit in comp scenario but i'm pretty sure teams just runned engi to defend the first 2 points
idk if thats less stalematey or more fun to you
also the 6s koth meta is all about one map and one map only, product, we've had coalplant and ashville in the past and we got rid of them because people liked viaduct more so
i don't think "need" is the word you're looking for boy
Hasn't there been dozens of threads like this "We need koth maps" already? I think ppl are aware it'd be nice, I think it comes down to the lack of good koth maps but I'm not sure though.
Also isn't it like gravel pit for example is aids for players but interesting for viewers or something among those lines? I don't really have exp with A/D maps other than the map test sunday on cp_jaddou which isn't likely too comparable to other A/D maps as it's very narrow and much terrible.
Also isn't it like gravel pit for example is aids for players but interesting for viewers or something among those lines? I don't really have exp with A/D maps other than the map test sunday on cp_jaddou which isn't likely too comparable to other A/D maps as it's very narrow and much terrible.
i literally cannot comprehend why we coalplant is not in the rotation when we have such gems as granary and metalworks
also bring back gpit
also bring back gpit
One major thing is that there are loads of talented mappers in the mapping community, but they've got no real incentive to make maps for 6v6, not really HL either. If they make maps that are suitable for pubs, which will be exposed to way more people, they can stand to make some money from them if valve like them. From a 6v6 map they'd make nothing, unless they get lucky like with a process/gully/snake etc. Even then, those maps were around for years before becoming official.
ban every class that isn't spy and put them into a 3v3 match on cp_cloak
but seriously having more 6v6 koth maps sounds like a good idea but I doubt you could get people to play them since its "NOT MUH PRODUKT", I think one of the best things to do would be to set the timer on a 5cp map to something like 2:50 or 3 mins instead of the 10/5 we use now while this might not solve every problem with 5cp and it would require a lot of testing it might make people want to push sooner because of "oh shit the clocks running low", just a thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
but seriously having more 6v6 koth maps sounds like a good idea but I doubt you could get people to play them since its "NOT MUH PRODUKT", I think one of the best things to do would be to set the timer on a 5cp map to something like 2:50 or 3 mins instead of the 10/5 we use now while this might not solve every problem with 5cp and it would require a lot of testing it might make people want to push sooner because of "oh shit the clocks running low", just a thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
show of hands, how many ppl in this thread have played gpit? it was not fun for sixes at all
koth_bagel or bust
koth_bagel or bust
Only ever get ad back if we can do away with bo3
There is literally no reason to do a bo3, its way too long and everyone can't be fucked by the end
Also -gran +bagel
There is literally no reason to do a bo3, its way too long and everyone can't be fucked by the end
Also -gran +bagel
if you want gpit, cp_edifice is pretty much the same but with a smaller map that makes it more playable
5cp is not bad
Collaide-gran -reckoner +bagel +logjam
good post
5cp is not bad
[quote=Collaide]-gran -reckoner +bagel +logjam[/quote]
good post
Dr_SpamomanGetting more maps should not be the primary focus. it is better to have a few new good maps than a lot of new bad maps
But we dont have a few good maps. 5cp currently gives no incentive to push which makes it unfun to play or watch.
But we dont have a few good maps. 5cp currently gives no incentive to push which makes it unfun to play or watch.
The thing I always saw with our A/D maps is that we always have this sceme of "Cap A or B, then cap the other and then C"
Why not have a map thats in a row
Cap A then B then C
This way you wouldn't have to always give up one point
Why not have a map thats in a row
Cap A then B then C
This way you wouldn't have to always give up one point
I loved playing GPit in 6s. Granted I was in UGC Steel 6s at the time but I did enjoy playing GPit.
Raptor00XThe thing I always saw with our A/D maps is that we always have this sceme of "Cap A or B, then cap the other and then C"
Why not have a map thats in a row
Cap A then B then C
This way you wouldn't have to always give up one point
Typically when a Map is set up as A and/or B and then C it's done to prevent a horrible stalemate over 1 or both of the 1st 2 points.
[quote=Raptor00X]The thing I always saw with our A/D maps is that we always have this sceme of "Cap A or B, then cap the other and then C"
Why not have a map thats in a row
Cap A then B then C
This way you wouldn't have to always give up one point[/quote]
Typically when a Map is set up as A and/or B and then C it's done to prevent a horrible stalemate over 1 or both of the 1st 2 points.
I mean it's not like there aren't efforts to create these maps. koth_bagel and cp_haddou/jaddou aren't bad and though I haven't had a chance to play pl_tfcl seems interesting.
5cp is great.
More KOTH maps would be welcome though, to add variety.
More KOTH maps would be welcome though, to add variety.
competitive players severely underestimate how difficult it is to create a map, and to expect mappers to waste hundreds if not thousands of hours working on a map that is ultimately very likely to be disregarded by the competitive community is absurd. it's hard enough to get the most straightforward traditional 6's maps (see sunshine) tested rigorously enough to actually improve them, and even then its so difficult to make the right decisions (see logjam) that most maps end up abandoned after hundreds of hours of work, or stuck in development hell on the timespan of years.
it does seem like we're in a little bit of a renaissance of competitive mapping right now and that there is a slightly larger interest in nonstandard game modes (especially with the advent of mapchamp, which i wholeheartedly believe is one of the most important things happening for competitive tf2 at the moment) but it's still important to recognize how difficult it is to make even a passable competitive map, much less one in a nearly completely untested gamemode like koth or a/d.
it does seem like we're in a little bit of a renaissance of competitive mapping right now and that there is a slightly larger interest in nonstandard game modes (especially with the advent of mapchamp, which i wholeheartedly believe is one of the most important things happening for competitive tf2 at the moment) but it's still important to recognize how difficult it is to make even a passable competitive map, much less one in a nearly completely untested gamemode like koth or a/d.
Running an engineer isn't inherently bad, just depends what most people find fun. My team have switched classes alot and I don't think any of us mind being the dedicated engineer offclasser in a 5CP last hold or defence on A/D so long as it's a contribution. I'm sure there are plenty of other players with the same mindset.
I never played cp_gravelpit in ETF2L but I've doublemixed on it and played cp_edifice in the preseason cup; personally I really enjoyed both maps and the concept of A/D as a whole. Can definitely agree that KOTH and A/D are lacking in good maps though.
I wasn't too fond of koth_bagel but I know alot of other people were so maybe that'd be a good place to start.
Has any mapper considered an A/D remake of one of the currently played 5CP maps? Not sure how it would turn out but just an idea.
I never played cp_gravelpit in ETF2L but I've doublemixed on it and played cp_edifice in the preseason cup; personally I really enjoyed both maps and the concept of A/D as a whole. Can definitely agree that KOTH and A/D are lacking in good maps though.
I wasn't too fond of koth_bagel but I know alot of other people were so maybe that'd be a good place to start.
Has any mapper considered an A/D remake of one of the currently played 5CP maps? Not sure how it would turn out but just an idea.
a good linear AD map is definitely something thatd be nice to see. reworking 5cp maps (unless you already own it) is kind of unfavorable though because it really hurts your chance of valve officializing it (see product needing a name change just to get on the workshop).
though if anyone tries to make a gpit style cap system then it needs to be way easier for defense to rotate between the two capture points. people literally just gave up A most of the time to hold B cuz it was more defensible.
though if anyone tries to make a gpit style cap system then it needs to be way easier for defense to rotate between the two capture points. people literally just gave up A most of the time to hold B cuz it was more defensible.
My guess was correct, you have 1k hours in the game and your comp experience is faceit and 10 games of tf2c(4 games of 6s), so please don't act like you know what you are talking about.
There's almost certainly a way to make a lot of the nonstandard gamemodes work great for 6s, but without prodding and probing at them to establish some kind of competitive theory, it's impossible to get anywhere.
Even getting new 5cp maps tested has been hard enough if you don't already have some kind of impetus behind you (a history of making good maps, or endorsement from a well-known player), so there's been very little push to try making competitive maps for other modes.
MapChamp definitely helps out in both those regards, and I'd really like to see that continue so we can see more maps reaching competitive standards, and get a better idea of both the mapping theory and gameplay theory of nonstandard modes.
Even getting new 5cp maps tested has been hard enough if you don't already have some kind of impetus behind you (a history of making good maps, or endorsement from a well-known player), so there's been very little push to try making competitive maps for other modes.
MapChamp [i]definitely[/i] helps out in both those regards, and I'd really like to see that continue so we can see more maps reaching competitive standards, and get a better idea of both the mapping theory and gameplay theory of nonstandard modes.