botmodeI want to also state the only thing close to a valid argument for crossbow being banned was one of Marxist's posts, which in itself was anything but convincing. I think at this point it's really difficult to argue that crossbow makes the game worse, certainly different but this whole "ban crossbow" thing really seems like a matter of opinion. It also seems like the majority of people would prefer the crossbow unbanned, especially for those who have actually played since the crossbow was released.
It's not very difficult to summarize. xbow is good enough to the point that if you run something else on medic primary you're essentially throwing. Think what you will but IMO thats straight up the definition of overpowered. I know that may be overbloating how much of an impact it actually does or does not have but just my 2 cents.
[quote=botmode]I want to also state the only thing close to a valid argument for crossbow being banned was one of Marxist's posts, which in itself was anything but convincing. I think at this point it's really difficult to argue that crossbow makes the game worse, certainly different but this whole "ban crossbow" thing really seems like a matter of opinion. It also seems like the majority of people would prefer the crossbow unbanned, especially for those who have actually played since the crossbow was released. [/quote]
It's not very difficult to summarize. xbow is good enough to the point that if you run something else on medic primary you're essentially throwing. Think what you will but IMO thats straight up the definition of overpowered. I know that may be overbloating how much of an impact it actually does or does not have but just my 2 cents.
Ringo__StarrbotmodeI want to also state the only thing close to a valid argument for crossbow being banned was one of Marxist's posts, which in itself was anything but convincing. I think at this point it's really difficult to argue that crossbow makes the game worse, certainly different but this whole "ban crossbow" thing really seems like a matter of opinion. It also seems like the majority of people would prefer the crossbow unbanned, especially for those who have actually played since the crossbow was released.
It's not very difficult to summarize. xbow is good enough to the point that if you run something else on medic primary you're essentially throwing. Think what you will but IMO thats straight up the definition of overpowered. I know that may be overbloating how much of an impact it actually does or does not have but just my 2 cents.
I havent read anything on that thread, but that point is just plain wrong. The fact that every other alternative is bad (which is pretty much the case for medic primary slot) doesnt make the weapon OP, it just makes it better than bad weapons.
[quote=Ringo__Starr][quote=botmode]I want to also state the only thing close to a valid argument for crossbow being banned was one of Marxist's posts, which in itself was anything but convincing. I think at this point it's really difficult to argue that crossbow makes the game worse, certainly different but this whole "ban crossbow" thing really seems like a matter of opinion. It also seems like the majority of people would prefer the crossbow unbanned, especially for those who have actually played since the crossbow was released. [/quote]
It's not very difficult to summarize. xbow is good enough to the point that if you run something else on medic primary you're essentially throwing. Think what you will but IMO thats straight up the definition of overpowered. I know that may be overbloating how much of an impact it actually does or does not have but just my 2 cents.[/quote]
I havent read anything on that thread, but that point is just plain wrong. The fact that every other alternative is bad (which is pretty much the case for medic primary slot) doesnt make the weapon OP, it just makes it better than bad weapons.
Think of it this way: 'medic would be underpowered without crossbow' where 'crossbow' should be 'its primary weapons' except valve left all the other primaries to be shit
Think of it this way: 'medic would be underpowered without crossbow' where 'crossbow' should be 'its primary weapons' except valve left all the other primaries to be shit
Medic wasn't underpowered without crossbow
Medic wasn't underpowered without crossbow
HildrethYou can run Banners on Soldiers, it's a tactical choice if you want to sacrifice mobility for extra damage or ability to soak up damage.
You can run Pain Train if you want to sacrifice the speed the Escape Plan gives you for extra capping power.
Stock weapons aren't really in the discussion.
The weapon adds good elements to the game but it doesn't give you any other choice but to run it, maybe my Medic likes to use Syringe Gun instead of Crossbow but if he does so we're at a disadvantage not using it and it's less fun for us. And I think the weapon being best in slow is a non-issue, but the alternatives need to offer something otherwise your team is hindered.
@Kav - Fun is a very objective way at looking at it, plenty of people don't enjoy the crossbow and have stated so yet you use it as an argument to keep it in. Your logic isn't adding up to me.
I don't want the weapon to be banned specifically, I think it adds a lot to the game and I'd prefer to see the Medic given an extra mechanic but it's just TOO good is the argument against. If we applied this weapon to the same logic that we apply to the Vitasaw it would be banned, but this weapon gets some sort of special treatment because it's well liked by a core group of people - It needs to be changed somehow. We're banning weapons way less impactful on the game than this like the Vaccinator and the Rescue Ranger.
unless you force your team to play really stalematey or you're in a stalemate situation banners are not usually a --sidegrade--, especially on roamer. Paintrain isn't really useful at all besides a few cases on gullywash and badlands.
There are a fuckton of weapons in this game that basically aren't usuable, people don't complain that they can't use those. Just because an item is stock doesn't mean it's the best designed item in that slot. That tends to be the trend but it's not necessarily true.
vaccinator and rescue ranger should be banned because they actually slow down the game and punish people for trying to push
[quote=Hildreth]You can run Banners on Soldiers, it's a tactical choice if you want to sacrifice mobility for extra damage or ability to soak up damage.
You can run Pain Train if you want to sacrifice the speed the Escape Plan gives you for extra capping power.
Stock weapons aren't really in the discussion.
The weapon adds good elements to the game but it doesn't give you any other choice but to run it, maybe my Medic likes to use Syringe Gun instead of Crossbow but if he does so we're at a disadvantage not using it and it's less fun for us. And I think the weapon being best in slow is a non-issue, but the alternatives need to offer something otherwise your team is hindered.
@Kav - Fun is a very objective way at looking at it, plenty of people don't enjoy the crossbow and have stated so yet you use it as an argument to keep it in. Your logic isn't adding up to me.
I don't want the weapon to be banned specifically, I think it adds a lot to the game and I'd prefer to see the Medic given an extra mechanic but it's just TOO good is the argument against. If we applied this weapon to the same logic that we apply to the Vitasaw it would be banned, but this weapon gets some sort of special treatment because it's well liked by a core group of people - It needs to be changed somehow. We're banning weapons way less impactful on the game than this like the Vaccinator and the Rescue Ranger.[/quote]
unless you force your team to play really stalematey or you're in a stalemate situation banners are not usually a --sidegrade--, especially on roamer. Paintrain isn't really useful at all besides a few cases on gullywash and badlands.
There are a fuckton of weapons in this game that basically aren't usuable, people don't complain that they can't use those. Just because an item is stock doesn't mean it's the best designed item in that slot. That tends to be the trend but it's not necessarily true.
vaccinator and rescue ranger should be banned because they actually slow down the game and punish people for trying to push
weapon does way too much right now. massive burst heal that also builds uber, passive reload, and does very good damage when spammed from distance.
should either nerf the heal to something more reasonable (75 hp max, maybe even 50) or remove the damage altogether and force med to go melee to protect themselves. it just does way too much right now.
weapon does way too much right now. massive burst heal that also builds uber, passive reload, and does very good damage when spammed from distance.
should either nerf the heal to something more reasonable (75 hp max, maybe even 50) or remove the damage altogether and force med to go melee to protect themselves. it just does way too much right now.
marmadukeGRYLLSweapon does way too much right now. massive burst heal that also builds uber, passive reload, and does very good damage when spammed from distance.
should either nerf the heal to something more reasonable (75 hp max, maybe even 50) or remove the damage altogether and force med to go melee to protect themselves. it just does way too much right now.
i basically said the same thing and got downvoted
ILLEGALELEPHANTGUNwhat if crossbow didnt heal allies, but kept its damage? this would still give medic a needed offensive buff, but possibly remove some of that stalemate inducing play from the game as theorized in OP's post.
[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS]weapon does way too much right now. massive burst heal that also builds uber, passive reload, and does very good damage when spammed from distance.
should either nerf the heal to something more reasonable (75 hp max, maybe even 50) or remove the damage altogether and force med to go melee to protect themselves. it just does way too much right now.[/quote]
i basically said the same thing and got downvoted
[quote=ILLEGALELEPHANTGUN]what if crossbow didnt heal allies, but kept its damage? this would still give medic a needed offensive buff, but possibly remove some of that stalemate inducing play from the game as theorized in OP's post.[/quote]
ILLEGALELEPHANTGUNmarmadukeGRYLLSweapon does way too much right now. massive burst heal that also builds uber, passive reload, and does very good damage when spammed from distance.
should either nerf the heal to something more reasonable (75 hp max, maybe even 50) or remove the damage altogether and force med to go melee to protect themselves. it just does way too much right now.
i basically said the same thing and got downvoted ILLEGALELEPHANTGUNwhat if crossbow didnt heal allies, but kept its damage? this would still give medic a needed offensive buff, but possibly remove some of that stalemate inducing play from the game as theorized in OP's post.
you said the exact opposite of what he said
you = crossbow only does damage
him = corssbow only heals
[quote=ILLEGALELEPHANTGUN][quote=marmadukeGRYLLS]weapon does way too much right now. massive burst heal that also builds uber, passive reload, and does very good damage when spammed from distance.
should either nerf the heal to something more reasonable (75 hp max, maybe even 50) or remove the damage altogether and force med to go melee to protect themselves. it just does way too much right now.[/quote]
i basically said the same thing and got downvoted
[quote=ILLEGALELEPHANTGUN]what if crossbow didnt heal allies, but kept its damage? this would still give medic a needed offensive buff, but possibly remove some of that stalemate inducing play from the game as theorized in OP's post.[/quote][/quote]
you said the exact opposite of what he said
you = crossbow only does damage
him = corssbow only heals
Tery_I'd be interested in knowing how many active (career) Medics have played since or during the old days when crossbow was irrelevant. I'm pretty neutral either way (because I sure miss using needles) but crossbow does provide something exciting to Medic. I don't think I'd have "less" fun if the weapon was banned but hitting long-distance arrows is one of the most rewarding feelings besides getting an Ubersaw swipe for uber. Guess I'm still torn.
I played a bit (mostly tf2mix/pugna/lobbies/ugc) before the crossbow passive reload buff and didn't mind it but given how accustomed ive gotten to using arrows and how much the meta has shifted towards efficiently utilizing arrows (arrow building, demos getting bowed at the start of mid, etc.) it wouldn't make sense to ban it. I agree with marm and those who said it should get nerfed but at the end of the day that's up to valve and I'm quite pessimistic that they will actually change it (not to mention change it in the right way). Would definitely lower the skill ceiling and make medic a lot less fun/more boring if all you could do was beam people and occasionally try to needle scouts.
[quote=Tery_]I'd be interested in knowing how many active (career) Medics have played since or during the old days when crossbow was irrelevant. I'm pretty neutral either way (because I sure miss using needles) but crossbow does provide something exciting to Medic. I don't think I'd have "less" fun if the weapon was banned but hitting long-distance arrows is one of the most rewarding feelings besides getting an Ubersaw swipe for uber. Guess I'm still torn.[/quote]
I played a bit (mostly tf2mix/pugna/lobbies/ugc) before the crossbow passive reload buff and didn't mind it but given how accustomed ive gotten to using arrows and how much the meta has shifted towards efficiently utilizing arrows (arrow building, demos getting bowed at the start of mid, etc.) it wouldn't make sense to ban it. I agree with marm and those who said it should get nerfed but at the end of the day that's up to valve and I'm quite pessimistic that they will actually change it (not to mention change it in the right way). Would definitely lower the skill ceiling and make medic a lot less fun/more boring if all you could do was beam people and occasionally try to needle scouts.
What if the crossbow had a passive stat that made your mediguns heal slower? How would that impact the game?
What if the crossbow had a passive stat that made your mediguns heal slower? How would that impact the game?
RipTideWhat if the crossbow had a passive stat that made your mediguns heal slower? How would that impact the game?
that would just make people even more reliant on using arrows to heal lol you would just build and do everything besides buffing with arrows and then pull out the medigun to uber
[quote=RipTide]What if the crossbow had a passive stat that made your mediguns heal slower? How would that impact the game?[/quote]
that would just make people even more reliant on using arrows to heal lol you would just build and do everything besides buffing with arrows and then pull out the medigun to uber
wouldn't that make people use the crossbow when in need of burst healing and use medigun when they need reliable consistent heals?
wouldn't that make people use the crossbow when in need of burst healing and use medigun when they need reliable consistent heals?
Hildreth@Kav - Fun is a very objective way at looking at it, plenty of people don't enjoy the crossbow and have stated so yet you use it as an argument to keep it in. Your logic isn't adding up to me.
I don't want the weapon to be banned specifically, I think it adds a lot to the game and I'd prefer to see the Medic given an extra mechanic but it's just TOO good is the argument against. If we applied this weapon to the same logic that we apply to the Vitasaw it would be banned, but this weapon gets some sort of special treatment because it's well liked by a core group of people - It needs to be changed somehow. We're banning weapons way less impactful on the game than this like the Vaccinator and the Rescue Ranger.
i think you mean subjective but its not really what i meant. all i was really getting at was that being the best option alone shouldnt make something banworthy. i dont even disagree with the rest of what you said, and wasnt arguing to keep/ban it either way. just that there are so many items that are run full-time and it doesnt really get the point across to use it as a justification for a ban.
like the vita saw is more than just best in slot. it gimps the medic in return for reducing the penalty of death. its entirely passive and equalizes skill levels between teams. theres the combination of reasons that led to people wanting vita saw banned beyond just being the best medic melee.
and while fun is obviously not a measurable factor, theres not really any good term to generalize a good or bad impact on the meta (e.g. stuff like "slowing the game down") which are still a big part of why things tend to get banned. i mean bans used to rely a lot on votes in na for that reason at least.
[quote=Hildreth]@Kav - Fun is a very objective way at looking at it, plenty of people don't enjoy the crossbow and have stated so yet you use it as an argument to keep it in. Your logic isn't adding up to me.
I don't want the weapon to be banned specifically, I think it adds a lot to the game and I'd prefer to see the Medic given an extra mechanic but it's just TOO good is the argument against. If we applied this weapon to the same logic that we apply to the Vitasaw it would be banned, but this weapon gets some sort of special treatment because it's well liked by a core group of people - It needs to be changed somehow. We're banning weapons way less impactful on the game than this like the Vaccinator and the Rescue Ranger.[/quote]
i think you mean subjective but its not really what i meant. all i was really getting at was that being the best option alone shouldnt make something banworthy. i dont even disagree with the rest of what you said, and wasnt arguing to keep/ban it either way. just that there are so many items that are run full-time and it doesnt really get the point across to use it as a justification for a ban.
like the vita saw is more than just best in slot. it gimps the medic in return for reducing the penalty of death. its entirely passive and equalizes skill levels between teams. theres the combination of reasons that led to people wanting vita saw banned beyond just being the best medic melee.
and while fun is obviously not a measurable factor, theres not really any good term to generalize a good or bad impact on the meta (e.g. stuff like "slowing the game down") which are still a big part of why things tend to get banned. i mean bans used to rely a lot on votes in na for that reason at least.
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barefoot_banditi think all these people posting about the crossbow, are all smesi alts
ur not being helpful to the conversation or funny, neither am i rn but i tend to avoid threads like this because they're either a) really dumb b) huge hivemind cjerks or c) huge dramaholes which i just want to avoid in general
i made the unpopular opinion thread to make fun of this whole "ban the CROSSBAW reeeee" retardfest
i personally wouldnt mind running needles but i still think banning the crossbow as a whole is dumb, i think just removing uber arrows and capping the healing done by arrows to like 75 or 100 would be fine but then again we would have to make a promod which i dont like the idea at all or just beg valve again to balance shit again which prob wont happen and if it happens it'll take quite a while for it to actually happen
[spoiler][quote=barefoot_bandit]i think all these people posting about the crossbow, are all smesi alts[/quote]
ur not being helpful to the conversation or funny, neither am i rn but i tend to avoid threads like this because they're either a) really dumb b) huge hivemind cjerks or c) huge dramaholes which i just want to avoid in general
i made the unpopular opinion thread to make fun of this whole "ban the CROSSBAW reeeee" retardfest[/spoiler]
i personally wouldnt mind running needles but i still think banning the crossbow as a whole is dumb, i think just removing uber arrows and capping the healing done by arrows to like 75 or 100 would be fine but then again we would have to make a promod which i dont like the idea at all or just beg valve again to balance shit again which prob wont happen and if it happens it'll take quite a while for it to actually happen
I would argue that medic is a class that will always have more of an expected weapon set than other classes... the medics team-mates expect a lot of the medic when compared to individual scouts or soldiers since team healing is so vital. The incentive to play medic is limited imho (it's objectively more fun to deal damage and jump around than hide and heal), so having a weapon that rewards skill in very practical ways makes the class more rewarding to play.
In fact I think the idea of banning xbow is silly, but either way there will be plenty of people who take issue with medic weapon-sets. There will always be some generous souls out there willing to sacrifice some enjoyment in order to strengthen those around them, and thank goodness for that.
I would argue that medic is a class that will always have more of an expected weapon set than other classes... the medics team-mates expect a lot of the medic when compared to individual scouts or soldiers since team healing is so vital. The incentive to play medic is limited imho (it's objectively more fun to deal damage and jump around than hide and heal), so having a weapon that rewards skill in very practical ways makes the class more rewarding to play.
In fact I think the idea of banning xbow is silly, but either way there will be plenty of people who take issue with medic weapon-sets. There will always be some generous souls out there willing to sacrifice some enjoyment in order to strengthen those around them, and thank goodness for that.
Hildrethnope
just like gunboats on roamer and escape plan on soldier and stickybombs on demoman... do you want to ban those?
You can run Banners on Soldiers, it's a tactical choice if you want to sacrifice mobility for extra damage or ability to soak up damage.
You can run Pain Train if you want to sacrifice the speed the Escape Plan gives you for extra capping power.
you can run the overdose if you expect to be baited by your team on high ubercharge
fragile literally said in this thread that syringes are better than xbow on the majority of granary
don't pretend that the xbow is the only choice in its slot, it's the best in most situations but not all
@Kav - Fun is a very objective way at looking at it, plenty of people don't enjoy the crossbow and have stated so yet you use it as an argument to keep it in. Your logic isn't adding up to me.
more people enjoy the crossbow than don't, outside of circlejerk tftv threads
If we applied this weapon to the same logic that we apply to the Vitasaw it would be banned
the vitasaw is a broken pos that adds nothing to the game but gives medics free ubercharge for 0 skill cap
It is not comparable to the crossbow in any way. The crossbow brings new mechanics, different projectiles, different situational usages, new techniques (xbow building), and some level of actual enjoyment/aim requirement to the healbot class.
We're banning weapons way less impactful on the game than this like the Vaccinator and the Rescue Ranger.
Again, if you want to ban weapons for being impactful then the most well liked and balanced weapons should be at the top of the chopping block. No one can argue that gunboats, escape plan, stock demo/scout weapons, winger, even ubersaw are some of the most impactful weapons in the game. The medigun is the most impactful weapon. None of them need to be banned because of that.
[quote=Hildreth][quote=nope]
just like gunboats on roamer and escape plan on soldier and stickybombs on demoman... do you want to ban those?[/quote]
You can run Banners on Soldiers, it's a tactical choice if you want to sacrifice mobility for extra damage or ability to soak up damage.
You can run Pain Train if you want to sacrifice the speed the Escape Plan gives you for extra capping power.[/quote]
you can run the overdose if you expect to be baited by your team on high ubercharge
fragile literally said in this thread that syringes are better than xbow on the majority of granary
don't pretend that the xbow is the only choice in its slot, it's the best in most situations but not all
[quote]@Kav - Fun is a very objective way at looking at it, plenty of people don't enjoy the crossbow and have stated so yet you use it as an argument to keep it in. Your logic isn't adding up to me.[/quote] more people enjoy the crossbow than don't, outside of circlejerk tftv threads
[quote]If we applied this weapon to the same logic that we apply to the Vitasaw it would be banned[/quote]
the vitasaw is a broken pos that adds nothing to the game but gives medics free ubercharge for 0 skill cap
It is not comparable to the crossbow in any way. The crossbow brings new mechanics, different projectiles, different situational usages, new techniques (xbow building), and some level of actual enjoyment/aim requirement to the healbot class.
[quote]We're banning weapons way less impactful on the game than this like the Vaccinator and the Rescue Ranger.[/quote]
Again, if you want to ban weapons for being impactful then the most well liked and balanced weapons should be at the top of the chopping block. No one can argue that gunboats, escape plan, stock demo/scout weapons, winger, even ubersaw are some of the most impactful weapons in the game. The medigun is [i]the[/i] most impactful weapon. None of them need to be banned because of that.
Just remove the uber building mechanic and the weapon is fine.
Just remove the uber building mechanic and the weapon is fine.
Any ways in which the Xbow slows the game down is completely counterbalanced by people not spending time getting packs. Also, if it is banned I'm pretty sure a decent number of medics will quit the game.
Any ways in which the Xbow slows the game down is completely counterbalanced by people not spending time getting packs. Also, if it is banned I'm pretty sure a decent number of medics will quit the game.
TomSkirrett The incentive to play medic is limited imho (it's objectively more fun to deal damage and jump around than hide and heal), so having a weapon that rewards skill in very practical ways makes the class more rewarding to play.
There will always be some generous souls out there willing to sacrifice some enjoyment in order to strengthen those around them, and thank goodness for that.
I can understand where you're coming from but that claim is by no means objective. Don't get me wrong, it is fun to jump around and do damage but there's more to medic than just hiding and healing people lol. I can't speak for others but some of the reasons I play medic is because it gives you a huge amount of control over the pace of the game with ubers and stuff, as well as the fact that you are the most important class in the game and depending on how well you play you can make a huge difference on the outcome of the game (i.e., if you play well and you survive/don't easily get forced/can accurately track ubers, you can turn small advantages into round winning plays, whereas if you play poorly and die all the time/drop uber it can cost your team rounds). Hitting surfs and crossbows/clutch ubersaws and stuff like that is also fun and rewarding.
[quote=TomSkirrett] The incentive to play medic is limited imho (it's [u]objectively[/u] more fun to deal damage and jump around than hide and heal), so having a weapon that rewards skill in very practical ways makes the class more rewarding to play.
There will always be some generous souls out there willing to sacrifice some enjoyment in order to strengthen those around them, and thank goodness for that.[/quote]
I can understand where you're coming from but that claim is by no means objective. Don't get me wrong, it is fun to jump around and do damage but there's more to medic than just hiding and healing people lol. I can't speak for others but some of the reasons I play medic is because it gives you a huge amount of control over the pace of the game with ubers and stuff, as well as the fact that you are the most important class in the game and depending on how well you play you can make a huge difference on the outcome of the game (i.e., if you play well and you survive/don't easily get forced/can accurately track ubers, you can turn small advantages into round winning plays, whereas if you play poorly and die all the time/drop uber it can cost your team rounds). Hitting surfs and crossbows/clutch ubersaws and stuff like that is also fun and rewarding.
I stopped taking this seriously when this guy said Overdose is better than Crossbow because some guy who doesn't play the game anymore said so :D
I stopped taking this seriously when this guy said Overdose is better than Crossbow because some guy who doesn't play the game anymore said so :D
hello, I have not played team fortress 2 in a couple years
I would be sad to hear it if the crossbow got banned, mostly because it doesn't hurt the game, just changes it, and there's a lot of other problems with the game right now that deserve more attention. It's one of the few things that you can argue one way or the other, but in the same way, that's kind of brilliant, since it means that when they added it to the game, it was a meaningful change but didn't break anything. At least for that, I wouldn't want to see it get banned. But I haven't actually played the game in years, so I have no idea what it's like now.
hello, I have not played team fortress 2 in a couple years
I would be sad to hear it if the crossbow got banned, mostly because it doesn't hurt the game, just changes it, and there's a lot of other problems with the game right now that deserve more attention. It's one of the few things that you can argue one way or the other, but in the same way, that's kind of brilliant, since it means that when they added it to the game, it was a meaningful change but didn't break anything. At least for that, I wouldn't want to see it get banned. But I haven't actually played the game in years, so I have no idea what it's like now.
bearodactylI can understand where you're coming from but that claim is by no means objective. Don't get me wrong, it is fun to jump around and do damage but there's more to medic than just hiding and healing people lol. I can't speak for others but some of the reasons I play medic is because it gives you a huge amount of control over the pace of the game with ubers and stuff, as well as the fact that you are the most important class in the game and depending on how well you play you can make a huge difference on the outcome of the game (i.e., if you play well and you survive/don't easily get forced/can accurately track ubers, you can turn small advantages into round winning plays, whereas if you play poorly and die all the time/drop uber it can cost your team rounds). Hitting surfs and crossbows/clutch ubersaws and stuff like that is also fun and rewarding.
Could not agree more.
I was speaking more from the observations I've made of the personalities in low level competitive scenes statistically. I personally get huge satisfaction from the dynamics of medic that you describe. On a team that is not unified/healthy though the toxicity flows most directly in the direction of the medic in my experience which is not so fun. High liability and deeply rewarding the medic can be.
In regards to the crossbow I would still play medic if it were banned, nerfed, or whatever because I'm the type of person who is just drawn to that class... and I used to really love the danger of the syringe gun retreat to scouts and soldiers with the perfectly laid stream of hypodermic needles through the air.
[quote=bearodactyl]I can understand where you're coming from but that claim is by no means objective. Don't get me wrong, it is fun to jump around and do damage but there's more to medic than just hiding and healing people lol. I can't speak for others but some of the reasons I play medic is because it gives you a huge amount of control over the pace of the game with ubers and stuff, as well as the fact that you are the most important class in the game and depending on how well you play you can make a huge difference on the outcome of the game (i.e., if you play well and you survive/don't easily get forced/can accurately track ubers, you can turn small advantages into round winning plays, whereas if you play poorly and die all the time/drop uber it can cost your team rounds). Hitting surfs and crossbows/clutch ubersaws and stuff like that is also fun and rewarding.[/quote]
Could not agree more.
I was speaking more from the observations I've made of the personalities in low level competitive scenes statistically. I personally get huge satisfaction from the dynamics of medic that you describe. On a team that is not unified/healthy though the toxicity flows most directly in the direction of the medic in my experience which is not so fun. High liability and deeply rewarding the medic can be.
In regards to the crossbow I would still play medic if it were banned, nerfed, or whatever because I'm the type of person who is just drawn to that class... and I used to really love the danger of the syringe gun retreat to scouts and soldiers with the perfectly laid stream of hypodermic needles through the air.
https://scontent.flhr4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18301988_455546244781340_6297684267652441794_n.jpg?oh=351431447b033bf34345edb0085e3ff0&oe=5975FD97
Not sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights. Don't get me wrong, the crossbow can be fun, but having played a little bit of medic without crossbow in the etf2l whitelist cup I'd be very interested in trying it for a whole season.
Not sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights. Don't get me wrong, the crossbow can be fun, but having played a little bit of medic without crossbow in the etf2l whitelist cup I'd be very interested in trying it for a whole season.
CrayonNot sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights.
Banning pipes increases the skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on aiming stickies.
If you go down this line you will eventually ban all but one thing so you can focus on that one thing, since having less options directly correlates with increasing the skill ceiling.
The only time removing options increases the skill ceiling is if the option being removed takes less skill for equal or more reward as another option, like Sydney Sleeper. Deciding who to heal with the Crossbow just adds another element to deciding who to heal when. It's different, but not any less complex.
[quote=Crayon]Not sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights.[/quote]
Banning pipes increases the skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on aiming stickies.
If you go down this line you will eventually ban all but one thing so you can focus on that one thing, since having less options directly correlates with increasing the skill ceiling.
The only time removing options increases the skill ceiling is if the option being removed takes less skill for equal or more reward as another option, like Sydney Sleeper. Deciding who to heal with the Crossbow just adds another element to deciding who to heal when. It's different, but not any less complex.
4812622CrayonNot sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights.
Banning pipes increases the skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on aiming stickies.
If you go down this line you will eventually ban all but one thing so you can focus on that one thing, since having less options directly correlates with increasing the skill ceiling.
The only time removing options increases the skill ceiling is if the option being removed takes less skill for equal or more reward as another option, like Sydney Sleeper. Deciding who to heal with the Crossbow just adds another element to deciding who to heal when. It's different, but not any less complex.
I don't think deciding who to heal with the crossbow does take great knowledge because of the speed at which you heal them. At the moment in fights a lot of the time it's more viable to simply arrow people whereas I was commenting on the greater skill in my opinion that it takes to decide how much healing to give to people and who to prioritise. The strength of the weapon at the moment somewhat nullifies that aspect of gameplay.
[quote=4812622][quote=Crayon]Not sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights.[/quote]
Banning pipes increases the skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on aiming stickies.
If you go down this line you will eventually ban all but one thing so you can focus on that one thing, since having less options directly correlates with increasing the skill ceiling.
The only time removing options increases the skill ceiling is if the option being removed takes less skill for equal or more reward as another option, like Sydney Sleeper. Deciding who to heal with the Crossbow just adds another element to deciding who to heal when. It's different, but not any less complex.[/quote]
I don't think deciding who to heal with the crossbow does take great knowledge because of the speed at which you heal them. At the moment in fights a lot of the time it's more viable to simply arrow people whereas I was commenting on the greater skill in my opinion that it takes to decide how much healing to give to people and who to prioritise. The strength of the weapon at the moment somewhat nullifies that aspect of gameplay.
4812622CrayonNot sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights.
Banning pipes increases the skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on aiming stickies.
If you go down this line you will eventually ban all but one thing so you can focus on that one thing, since having less options directly correlates with increasing the skill ceiling.
i dont think thats how it works
[quote=4812622][quote=Crayon]Not sure if this has been mentioned but I think banning the crossbow increases the medic skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on the distribution of heals in fights.[/quote]
Banning pipes increases the skill ceiling by putting more of a focus on aiming stickies.
If you go down this line you will eventually ban all but one thing so you can focus on that one thing, since having less options directly correlates with increasing the skill ceiling.
[/quote]
i dont think thats how it works
like why and who even wanted to ban crossbow, this is the only weapon what brings some sort of skill to med (with few exceptions)
like why and who even wanted to ban crossbow, this is the only weapon what brings some sort of skill to med (with few exceptions)
One of the points i see getting brought up a lot is that its harder to push on damage because the enemy team can heal up so quickly with arrows, and while that is true, there are situations where the crossbow can enable your team to push because you need to get healed up quickly. Guess its just a matter of figuring out which is more likely to happen.
One of the points i see getting brought up a lot is that its harder to push on damage because the enemy team can heal up so quickly with arrows, and while that is true, there are situations where the crossbow can enable your team to push because you need to get healed up quickly. Guess its just a matter of figuring out which is more likely to happen.