balance changes blog post

#31

Stylax

1 Frags – +

Holy fuck

#32

bLa

11 Frags – +

Atomizer and DDS btfo
I love these changes :D

#33

Menty

24 Frags – +

sageAtomizer: Added: 50% deploy time penalty (to prevent quick-switch by-pass) does this even matter other than for meele attack? you will still be able to perform the 3rd jump anyway even if its not 100% deployed right?

"Changes:
Triple-jump is now only possible while the bat is deployed"

[quote=sage][quote]Atomizer: Added: 50% deploy time penalty (to prevent quick-switch by-pass) [/quote]
does this even matter other than for meele attack? you will still be able to perform the 3rd jump anyway even if its not 100% deployed right?[/quote]

"Changes:
Triple-jump is now only possible while the bat is deployed"

#34

Tob

14 Frags – +

DDS changes are amazing. I'm so glad the majority of pubbers never figured out how OP it is. Now it seems like an amazing counter to those pyros that sit in the back of the map spamming scorch shot because wm1 is too hard for them

There was some negative feedback about the amby change. Keep in mind close-mid range RNG has been reduced which is a significant buff. You can now headshot + instantly kill a low hp class at close range if this will be close to stock revolver spread.
For taking out razorback snipers at close-mid range that's amazing.
Also headshotting scouts close range and then missing the followup bodyshots due to RNG felt really bad so maybe that's a thing of the past as well.
Might even be able to headshot + bodyshot engineers reliably now if you get spotted before the stab and still have time to sap a sentry if it's at a 180° angle.
The change doesn't seem all bad. We don't even know how wide the spread will be and what "long range" will be exactly

Overall a lot of these changes are definitely based on comp player feedback. It's not perfect yet but we're getting there. Slowly

DDS changes are amazing. I'm so glad the majority of pubbers never figured out how OP it is. Now it seems like an amazing counter to those pyros that sit in the back of the map spamming scorch shot because wm1 is too hard for them

There was some negative feedback about the amby change. Keep in mind close-mid range RNG has been reduced which is a significant buff. You can now headshot + instantly kill a low hp class at close range if this will be close to stock revolver spread.
For taking out razorback snipers at close-mid range that's amazing.
Also headshotting scouts close range and then missing the followup bodyshots due to RNG felt really bad so maybe that's a thing of the past as well.
Might even be able to headshot + bodyshot engineers reliably now if you get spotted before the stab and still have time to sap a sentry if it's at a 180° angle.
The change doesn't seem all bad. We don't even know how wide the spread will be and what "long range" will be exactly

Overall a lot of these changes are definitely based on comp player feedback. It's not perfect yet but we're getting there. Slowly

#35

Stochast1c

6 Frags – +

Douganhayeswhat would 200% more air control on the man treads look like exactly? like, is it similar to booties giving more control with shields, where you can barely turn if you don't have them? rocket jumping already gives you a shit ton of control already. am I being retarded, i can't picture having 200% more air control while rocket jumping.In my mind i imagined something similar to surf servers where air accel is higher and allows you to perform tighter strafes
Im not exactly a fan because I feel like it could potentially lower the skill ceiling on soldier in the sense that normally learning to perform well controlled strafes is something that takes a lot of time and practice. Now you can just equip the mantreads to do it more effectively than ever. Of course its impossible to tell without actually seeing it in-gameJojoSo have you ever tried air strafing too sharp and you just lose all your speed? well now you can turn much much sharper without loosing speed. I think surf servers tend to mess with this value to make it more similar to cs surfing but I'm not certain about that.

Assuming that +200% means +200%, then it changes the base airaccelrate from 10 to 30 (surf servers are usually 150 for skill and 1000 for trick). If you have a server with sourcemod you can try out the modified value with the command sm_cvar sv_airaccelerate 30.

[quote=Dougan][quote=hayes]what would 200% more air control on the man treads look like exactly? like, is it similar to booties giving more control with shields, where you can barely turn if you don't have them? rocket jumping already gives you a shit ton of control already. am I being retarded, i can't picture having 200% more air control while rocket jumping.[/quote]
In my mind i imagined something similar to surf servers where air accel is higher and allows you to perform tighter strafes
Im not exactly a fan because I feel like it could potentially lower the skill ceiling on soldier in the sense that normally learning to perform well controlled strafes is something that takes a lot of time and practice. Now you can just equip the mantreads to do it more effectively than ever. Of course its impossible to tell without actually seeing it in-game[/quote]

[quote=Jojo]
So have you ever tried air strafing too sharp and you just lose all your speed? well now you can turn much much sharper without loosing speed. I think surf servers tend to mess with this value to make it more similar to cs surfing but I'm not certain about that.[/quote]

Assuming that +200% means +200%, then it changes the base airaccelrate from 10 to 30 (surf servers are usually 150 for skill and 1000 for trick). If you have a server with sourcemod you can try out the modified value with the command sm_cvar sv_airaccelerate 30.

#36

Antares

42 Frags – +

stabby on suicide watch

#37

tomato_tom

0 Frags – +

Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal).

The uber building needs to be nerfed, just remove uber building completely and make it a heal only weapon. The uber building seems to be the most op thing so just leave the healing mechanics how they are because of what they said in the quote

[quote]Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal). [/quote]
The uber building needs to be nerfed, just remove uber building completely and make it a heal only weapon. The uber building seems to be the most op thing so just leave the healing mechanics how they are because of what they said in the quote

#38

Matthes

-1 Frags – +

Vita sawUbercharge on death is too valuable of an effect to be passive
Goal: Change the weapon in a way that requires skill and risk in order to gain this effect
Changes:
Added "Organs" collecting concept (... you know, hit someone with a saw, and out pops a vital organ which you then take, and hold). Each hit with the Vita-Saw harvests the victim's organs (shown on the HUD).
Added: On-death, preserve 15% ubercharge per Organ harvested. This effect caps at 60%.

Lol wat

[quote=Vita saw]
Ubercharge on death is too valuable of an effect to be passive
Goal: Change the weapon in a way that requires skill and risk in order to gain this effect
Changes:
Added "Organs" collecting concept (... you know, hit someone with a saw, and out pops a vital organ which you then take, and hold). Each hit with the Vita-Saw harvests the victim's organs (shown on the HUD).
Added: On-death, preserve 15% ubercharge per Organ harvested. This effect caps at 60%.[/quote]

Lol wat

#39

capnnofapn

12 Frags – +

The mantreads air control change should make bombing easier when scouts are around because you can swerve around in the air so much more to throw off their aim. You can also be more unpredictable by choosing weird angles to jump that would slow you down too much to be effective before.

#40

Adnurak

10 Frags – +

I can't believe these notes are actually happening, someone pinch me

http://i.imgur.com/1uCXrDr.gif

I can't believe these notes are actually happening, someone pinch me
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1uCXrDr.gif[/img]

#41

Rosvo_Rolle

7 Frags – +

Meanwhile Steam Forums are losing their minds and crying "TF2 will suck!!!"

I've a same opinion as you, guys. Most of these changes are very promising. Cannot wait to see the rest of the changes.

Meanwhile Steam Forums are losing their minds and crying "TF2 will suck!!!"

I've a same opinion as you, guys. Most of these changes are very promising. Cannot wait to see the rest of the changes.

#42

pajaro

-14 Frags – +

yes nerf the one class i play when it already relies on luck by making kills even more RNG based

#43

Zesty

28 Frags – +

https://puu.sh/wpQB4/a253f573aa.png

I'M READY

[img]https://puu.sh/wpQB4/a253f573aa.png[/img]
I'M READY

#44

Rosvo_Rolle

-3 Frags – +

But really, just go and take a quick lool at there, it's hilarious.

#45

kmoo0105

18 Frags – +

If you don't like the changes, SEND FEEDBACK TO VALVE. They are listening, as shown by many of these balances.

If you don't like the changes, [b]SEND FEEDBACK TO VALVE.[/b] They are listening, as shown by many of these balances.

#46

michael-

2 Frags – +

that new pretty boy's looks like a viable sidegrade now :thinking:

#47

Spycy

8 Frags – +

Spy/Sniper changes are a Kreygasm for hl

I know you dont like hl sry

Spy/Sniper changes are a Kreygasm for hl

I know you dont like hl sry

#48

canti

45 Frags – +

https://i.imgur.com/UjMhGgR.jpg

[img]https://i.imgur.com/UjMhGgR.jpg[/img]

#49

blAstro

14 Frags – +

I really hope they don't end up changing a bunch of stupid stuff due to pubbers with 200 hrs in-game complaining about a certain item being "OP".

#50

Rosvo_Rolle

5 Frags – +

blAstroI really hope they don't end up changing a bunch of stupid stuff due to pubbers with 200 hrs in-game complaining about a certain item being "OP".

Thank god that they don't visit Steam Forums that much. That place literally has plenty of your described guys right now.

[quote=blAstro]I really hope they don't end up changing a bunch of stupid stuff due to pubbers with 200 hrs in-game complaining about a certain item being "OP".[/quote]

Thank god that they don't visit Steam Forums that much. That place literally has plenty of your described guys right now.

#51

sandblast

2 Frags – +

the thing im sad about is the amby being ass from what that update says

#52

sage

8 Frags – +

cantihttps://i.imgur.com/UjMhGgR.jpg

when spy mains realize they can no longer have as much lives as ammo packs they get

[quote=canti][img]https://i.imgur.com/UjMhGgR.jpg[/img][/quote]
when spy mains realize they can no longer have as much lives as ammo packs they get

#53

Snack

5 Frags – +

I don't really agree with a few of the things but the fact that Valve is actually being vocal is blowing my fucking mind.

I'm not too big of a fan of the pretty boy's pocket pistol change as there no longer appears to be a downside for being able to get health aside from -3 bullets in clip. I think it should still carry a damage penalty, or at the very least have 5 or so bullets in a clip like the winger.
I don't think the vita-saw should allow you to preserve up to 60% uber on death, even if you did melee the enemies to get it. I'd be fine if the value was less (around 30% perhaps?)

Would still like to see the medic speed buff and sticky damage nerf removed, but the fact that Valve has this time proven that they're listening and is communicating is a good start.

Show Content

If you're reading this, thank you Valve <3

I don't really agree with a few of the things but the fact that Valve is actually being vocal is blowing my fucking mind.

I'm not too big of a fan of the pretty boy's pocket pistol change as there no longer appears to be a downside for being able to get health aside from -3 bullets in clip. I think it should still carry a damage penalty, or at the very least have 5 or so bullets in a clip like the winger.
I don't think the vita-saw should allow you to preserve up to 60% uber on death, even if you did melee the enemies to get it. I'd be fine if the value was less (around 30% perhaps?)

Would still like to see the medic speed buff and sticky damage nerf removed, but the fact that Valve has this time [i]proven[/i] that they're listening and is communicating is a good start.

[spoiler]If you're reading this, thank you Valve <3[/spoiler]

#54

jynxed

4 Frags – +

the ambassador is literally the only thing fun about spy and if their goal is to nerf if they should do it through some other means. please keep as much rng as possible out of tf2 ty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGV53yAZ6QY

the ambassador is literally the only thing fun about spy and if their goal is to nerf if they should do it through some other means. please keep as much rng as possible out of tf2 ty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGV53yAZ6QY

#55

Lunacide

7 Frags – +

capnnofapnThe mantreads air control change should make bombing easier when scouts are around because you can swerve around in the air so much more to throw off their aim. You can also be more unpredictable by choosing weird angles to jump that would slow you down too much to be effective before.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the mantreads make it pretty much impossible to juggle you or slow down your momentum mid-air. They had a pretty niche use before, where you could push like badlands last or granary last upper without getting juggled. I think now they could be used in a few more situations because of the strafe increase I guess? They still don't have near as much game impact as the gunboats.

[quote=capnnofapn]The mantreads air control change should make bombing easier when scouts are around because you can swerve around in the air so much more to throw off their aim. You can also be more unpredictable by choosing weird angles to jump that would slow you down too much to be effective before.[/quote]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the mantreads make it pretty much impossible to juggle you or slow down your momentum mid-air. They had a pretty niche use before, where you could push like badlands last or granary last upper without getting juggled. I think now they could be used in a few more situations because of the strafe increase I guess? They still don't have near as much game impact as the gunboats.

#56

weeble

-4 Frags – +

Crusader's Crossbow
Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal). However, it's also the fastest way to build Ubercharge - under the right conditions (e.g. corner damage farming with the Medic behind cover).
Changes:
Ubercharge gain rate reduced in the same way that the Medigun's healing (and therefore, Ubercharge build rate) is - based on the last time the target was in combat
Reduced by a third when 1 - 10 seconds outside of combat, and scales up to normal over 10 - 15 seconds

Now just need a few more nerfs and crossbow should be out of the meta!!!! Perhaps removing damage to enemy players entirely

Crusader's Crossbow
Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal). However, it's also the fastest way to build Ubercharge - under the right conditions (e.g. corner damage farming with the Medic behind cover).
Changes:
Ubercharge gain rate reduced in the same way that the Medigun's healing (and therefore, Ubercharge build rate) is - based on the last time the target was in combat
Reduced by a third when 1 - 10 seconds outside of combat, and scales up to normal over 10 - 15 seconds

Now just need a few more nerfs and crossbow should be out of the meta!!!! Perhaps removing damage to enemy players entirely

#57

kbto

0 Frags – +

.

#58

dagrinch

5 Frags – +

Not only does the change list look great, but you have got to love that Valve has added some commentary to the changes being made. It helps a lot to understand their rationale and understanding behind each change.

Not only does the change list look great, but you have [i]got to love[/i] that Valve has added some commentary to the changes being made. It helps a lot to understand their rationale and understanding behind each change.

#59

CheesyMacgyver

1 Frags – +

4812622All of these are steps in the right direction (good job Valve!) except for Ambassador. If the first shot isn't perfect spread, what's the fucking point? A more sensible nerf would be to just increase the cooldown period until perfect accuracy.

that would be super boring if they nerfed it that way lol who actually equips the amby and sits across the map hitting a pubber for 102 while hes standing still? im assuming that instead of perfect first shot accuracy you get 50% reduced spread at all times and that sounds really fucking fun

can you actually imagine running around fighting people with your gun and killing them really fast without having to wait for this dumpy cooldown shit

revolvers spread is pretty tight already and 50% is a lot of fucking % this change is amazing imo I really hope people dont complain about it super hard and ruin it

[quote=4812622]All of these are steps in the right direction (good job Valve!) except for Ambassador. If the first shot isn't perfect spread, what's the fucking point? A more sensible nerf would be to just increase the cooldown period until perfect accuracy.
[/quote]

that would be super boring if they nerfed it that way lol who actually equips the amby and sits across the map hitting a pubber for 102 while hes standing still? im assuming that instead of perfect first shot accuracy you get 50% reduced spread at all times and that sounds really fucking fun

can you actually imagine running around fighting people with your gun and killing them really fast without having to wait for this dumpy cooldown shit

revolvers spread is pretty tight already and 50% is a lot of fucking % this change is amazing imo I really hope people dont complain about it super hard and ruin it

#60

viper

10 Frags – +

wolves-yayooothe ambassador is literally the only thing fun about spy

if all you enjoy doing on spy is headshotting people with the ambassador then why not just play sniper

[quote=wolves-yayooo]the ambassador is literally the only thing fun about spy[/quote]

if all you enjoy doing on spy is headshotting people with the ambassador then why not just play sniper