NickstonMakyAzazel-Makyif we start banning players who said dumb and sexist things, then many members of the community, including myself, would be banned.
mad_dogWhat about all the people saying the N word? should we ban them??
thank you both for these excellent suggestions. yes. ban hammer
The narrative that we can just ban people because they think differently, needs to stop. Just because I have a differing opinion then you doesn't mean you have the right to ban me or anyone else.
There's a massive difference between people having a different opinion on matters regarding anything ranging from gender, race and sexuality and people flat-out doing their best to harass and ostricize people of certain races, genders and sexualities from the community.
someone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.
[quote=Nickston][quote=Maky][quote=Azazel-][quote=Maky]if we start banning players who said dumb and sexist things, then many members of the community, including myself, would be banned. [/quote]
[quote=mad_dog]What about all the people saying the N word? should we ban them?? [/quote]
thank you both for these excellent suggestions. yes. ban hammer[/quote]
The narrative that we can just ban people because they think differently, needs to stop. Just because I have a differing opinion then you doesn't mean you have the right to ban me or anyone else.[/quote]
There's a massive difference between people having a different opinion on matters regarding anything ranging from gender, race and sexuality and people flat-out doing their best to harass and ostricize people of certain races, genders and sexualities from the community.[/quote]
someone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.
b420nnyhonestly some people in the tf2 community need to be eradicated, like where the fuck has their basic human decency gone?
https://i.imgur.com/bimjITY.png
[quote=b420nny]honestly some people in the tf2 community need to be eradicated, like where the fuck has their basic human decency gone?[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bimjITY.png[/img]
I can see where the direction of this thread is going so i think its important for everyone to remember:
-Private leagues and services are private, and they can ban whoever they please. However, it is still totally valid to criticize leagues and services for how they choose to ban people.
-Saying that degu/pred shouldn't be banned is not the equivalent to defending them, what they said, agreeing with them, or thinking that racist behavior is okay.
-Just because something can be agreed to be not okay or shitty doesn't mean it warrants a ban, and thinking this is not siding with the racist, being racist, or complying with racism in the community.
I can see where the direction of this thread is going so i think its important for everyone to remember:
-Private leagues and services are private, and they can ban whoever they please. However, it is still totally valid to criticize leagues and services for how they choose to ban people.
-Saying that degu/pred shouldn't be banned is not the equivalent to defending them, what they said, agreeing with them, or thinking that racist behavior is okay.
-Just because something can be agreed to be not okay or shitty doesn't mean it warrants a ban, and thinking this is not siding with the racist, being racist, or complying with racism in the community.
Tino_MakyAzazel-Makyif we start banning players who said dumb and sexist things, then many members of the community, including myself, would be banned.
mad_dogWhat about all the people saying the N word? should we ban them??
thank you both for these excellent suggestions. yes. ban hammer
The narrative that we can just ban people because they think differently, needs to stop. Just because I have a differing opinion then you doesn't mean you have the right to ban me or anyone else.
Well actually everything done in TF2 is a private service, so yeah, we kinda can just ban anyone for any reason.
I have done nothing but have a different opinion then you, if you really think that thats grounds for ban, then go ahead. Seriously folks, this thread is about the 3 involved parties, can we keep it about them and not make this an entire political discussion.
[quote=Tino_][quote=Maky][quote=Azazel-][quote=Maky]if we start banning players who said dumb and sexist things, then many members of the community, including myself, would be banned. [/quote]
[quote=mad_dog]What about all the people saying the N word? should we ban them?? [/quote]
thank you both for these excellent suggestions. yes. ban hammer[/quote]
The narrative that we can just ban people because they think differently, needs to stop. Just because I have a differing opinion then you doesn't mean you have the right to ban me or anyone else.[/quote]
Well actually everything done in TF2 is a private service, so yeah, we kinda can just ban anyone for any reason.[/quote]
I have done nothing but have a different opinion then you, if you really think that thats grounds for ban, then go ahead. Seriously folks, this thread is about the 3 involved parties, can we keep it about them and not make this an entire political discussion.
too late, let the witchhunt begin
too late, let the witchhunt begin
Reerosomeone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.
People tend to be pretty thin-skinned, so just because you personally don't think it's offensive, someone who is trans or black or a woman might think it is. You have to learn to think about things from other people's perspective as well.
[quote=Reero]
someone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.[/quote]
People tend to be pretty thin-skinned, so just because you personally don't think it's offensive, someone who is trans or black or a woman might think it is. You have to learn to think about things from other people's perspective as well.
Reerosomeone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.
When I use to play highlander I used to be stalked by two players aliasing as my name, constantly calling me a tranny, and harassing me in my steam comments with their entire circlejerk spamming the same thing to me (still calling me a tranny and to off myself). These are the people who are doing their best to ostracize and trying to remove people from the community, or because they simply think this type of stuff is funny. While we may not be talking about the same people, I know many others who have experienced what I have and it's a very real thing that's gonna continue happening in our small scene.
We now also have two players on the most popular competitive TF2 team insult others personally and both of their excuses so far have been "I don't mean it." We have league admins and admins of third party services who are afraid of banning those who personally attack others because they don't want to risk making the community any smaller. This is driving people away who actually put forth effort into making the community better in favor of those who do nothing for the game. Uberchain has done way more for TF2 than both of these dipshits ever have and ever will. It would be a real shame if all the biggest community members in our scene continue turning a blind eye to all of this out of the simple fear of making the game smaller. I'd personally much rather keep talent like uberchain around over people who have proven to be awful people and have nothing to offer to the scene.
[quote=Reero]someone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.[/quote]
When I use to play highlander I used to be stalked by two players aliasing as my name, constantly calling me a tranny, and harassing me in my steam comments with their entire circlejerk spamming the same thing to me (still calling me a tranny and to off myself). These are the people who are doing their best to ostracize and trying to remove people from the community, or because they simply think this type of stuff is funny. While we may not be talking about the same people, I know many others who have experienced what I have and it's a very real thing that's gonna continue happening in our small scene.
We now also have two players on the most popular competitive TF2 team insult others personally and both of their excuses so far have been "I don't mean it." We have league admins and admins of third party services who are afraid of banning those who personally attack others because they don't want to risk making the community any smaller. This is driving people away who actually put forth effort into making the community better in favor of those who do nothing for the game. Uberchain has done way more for TF2 than both of these dipshits ever have and ever will. It would be a real shame if all the biggest community members in our scene continue turning a blind eye to all of this out of the simple fear of making the game smaller. I'd personally much rather keep talent like uberchain around over people who have proven to be awful people and have nothing to offer to the scene.
The hypocrisy in terms of slurs is actually appalling, I have heard almost every NA TF2 player say nigger, faggot, etc. outside of the public's eye, so when you see the same people that demonstrated that behavior attempt to berate someone that used a slur so vehemently, it's quite humourous. Certain words are seen as tolerable and some are seen as taboo. The fact of the matter is that everyone should just be ethical publically, and if you're too terrible of a human being to show a hint of respect to a person, then you can meme up a storm in your respective CJs.
Either way, this thread has derailed so violently. This was never about what justification we can pinpoint banning pred and degu to, they've done that themselves, it was simply someone speaking out about their past experiences, a thread being made and bringing attention to an issue. I'm sure that since I described the situation for what it really is, it'll be seen as acting dismissive, but everyone that's here arguing and not acting on literally anything because they missed the bigger picture will have had and will continue to have zero contribution to actually finding any resolution.
The hypocrisy in terms of slurs is actually appalling, I have heard almost every NA TF2 player say nigger, faggot, etc. outside of the public's eye, so when you see the same people that demonstrated that behavior attempt to berate someone that used a slur so vehemently, it's quite humourous. Certain words are seen as tolerable and some are seen as taboo. The fact of the matter is that everyone should just be ethical publically, and if you're too terrible of a human being to show a hint of respect to a person, then you can meme up a storm in your respective CJs.
Either way, this thread has derailed so violently. This was never about what justification we can pinpoint banning pred and degu to, they've done that themselves, it was simply someone speaking out about their past experiences, a thread being made and bringing attention to an issue. I'm sure that since I described the situation for what it really is, it'll be seen as acting dismissive, but everyone that's here arguing and not acting on literally anything because they missed the bigger picture will have had and will continue to have zero contribution to actually finding any resolution.
degu has done lots of this community and shouldnt be 'eradicated', he is the head of tf2 mid.cz, hosted the czech lan, done production to keep the teamfortresstv etf2l coverage going and more what pred said was inexcusable but the fact that you can be that delusional to want to eradicate others and use human decency in the same sentence ..
https://twitter.com/Rayyymun/status/1026397919535083522
degu has done lots of this community and shouldnt be 'eradicated', he is the head of tf2 mid.cz, hosted the czech lan, done production to keep the teamfortresstv etf2l coverage going and more what pred said was inexcusable but the fact that you can be that delusional to want to eradicate others and use human decency in the same sentence ..
https://twitter.com/Rayyymun/status/1026397919535083522
What I would like to be taken from this recent discussion would be to acknowledge that some members of the community are being offensive to the point of absurdity, referring to individuals with racist terms and transphobic terms is not acceptable. Although it’s being argued that it’s simply meant as a ‘joke’ and that the community is being ‘oversensitive’ I would argue that this is becoming more common than in previous years. Especially when it comes to during prem games as well as during streams or pug based games by high level or well known players. It is a problem and we should take note of this, a positive step would be strict warnings on offensive language in chat during officials, since this is involved with our leagues etc.
As well as working together to make it clear this will no longer be acceptable, it’s one thing to have a bit of banter with friends and it’s quite another to repeatedly use offensive terms until someone using the n word or referring to a trans player with an abusive term or inappropriate suggestions becomes almost the norm, which seems to almost be seen as the dark side of the scene. Although yes these negative actions have existed before it doesn’t have to be this way and I hope we can work together to correct this as a community, which I have very much enjoyed being part of for all these years. There are plenty of lovely people and players and I hope we can continue to be that, whilst not ignoring those participating in this ongoing issue. We can make a difference and it’s important this discussion has occurred, I hope rather than pointing fingers or saying its ‘normalised’ we can work together to improve it.
What I would like to be taken from this recent discussion would be to acknowledge that some members of the community are being offensive to the point of absurdity, referring to individuals with racist terms and transphobic terms is not acceptable. Although it’s being argued that it’s simply meant as a ‘joke’ and that the community is being ‘oversensitive’ I would argue that this is becoming more common than in previous years. Especially when it comes to during prem games as well as during streams or pug based games by high level or well known players. It is a problem and we should take note of this, a positive step would be strict warnings on offensive language in chat during officials, since this is involved with our leagues etc.
As well as working together to make it clear this will no longer be acceptable, it’s one thing to have a bit of banter with friends and it’s quite another to repeatedly use offensive terms until someone using the n word or referring to a trans player with an abusive term or inappropriate suggestions becomes almost the norm, which seems to almost be seen as the dark side of the scene. Although yes these negative actions have existed before it doesn’t have to be this way and I hope we can work together to correct this as a community, which I have very much enjoyed being part of for all these years. There are plenty of lovely people and players and I hope we can continue to be that, whilst not ignoring those participating in this ongoing issue. We can make a difference and it’s important this discussion has occurred, I hope rather than pointing fingers or saying its ‘normalised’ we can work together to improve it.
NurseyReerosomeone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.
When I use to play highlander I used to be stalked by two players aliasing as my name, constantly calling me a tranny, and harassing me in my steam comments with their entire circlejerk spamming the same thing to me (still calling me a tranny and to off myself). These are the people who are doing their best to ostracize and trying to remove people from the community, or because they simply think this type of stuff is funny. While we may not be talking about the same people, I know many others who have experienced what I have and it's a very real thing that's gonna continue happening in our small scene.
We now also have two players on the most popular competitive TF2 team insult others personally and both of their excuses so far have been "I don't mean it." We have league admins and admins of third party services who are afraid of banning those who personally attack others because they don't want to risk making the community any smaller. This is driving people away who actually put forth effort into making the community better in favor of those who do nothing for the game. Uberchain has done way more for TF2 than both of these dipshits ever have and ever will. It would be a real shame if all the biggest community members in our scene continue turning a blind eye to all of this out of the simple fear of making the game smaller. I'd personally much rather keep talent like uberchain around over people who have proven to be awful people and have nothing to offer to the scene.
Well said. I totally agree with you, but it is also important to remember the flip-side. We as a community need to make sure that we don't become super ban-happy, as that actually does drive a lot of people away. For example, OWL has been heavily criticized for being too ban-happy to the point of policing what their players say in twitch chat. I don't think behavior from the people at TF2Center or the UGC forums who ban people left and right for "offences" that are pretty much harmless is healthy for a small game like TF2. Now, in my opinion, bans should be given out to people who harass or heavily insult others after warnings when the infraction occurs using the service, or their forums. This issue should be handled carefully and thought should be put into each case.
[quote=Nursey][quote=Reero]someone using the n word or saying "tranny" is not them doing their best to harass and ostracize people of certain races, genders, or sexuality from the community.[/quote]
When I use to play highlander I used to be stalked by two players aliasing as my name, constantly calling me a tranny, and harassing me in my steam comments with their entire circlejerk spamming the same thing to me (still calling me a tranny and to off myself). These are the people who are doing their best to ostracize and trying to remove people from the community, or because they simply think this type of stuff is funny. While we may not be talking about the same people, I know many others who have experienced what I have and it's a very real thing that's gonna continue happening in our small scene.
We now also have two players on the most popular competitive TF2 team insult others personally and both of their excuses so far have been "I don't mean it." We have league admins and admins of third party services who are afraid of banning those who personally attack others because they don't want to risk making the community any smaller. This is driving people away who actually put forth effort into making the community better in favor of those who do nothing for the game. Uberchain has done way more for TF2 than both of these dipshits ever have and ever will. It would be a real shame if all the biggest community members in our scene continue turning a blind eye to all of this out of the simple fear of making the game smaller. I'd personally much rather keep talent like uberchain around over people who have proven to be awful people and have nothing to offer to the scene.[/quote]
Well said. I totally agree with you, but it is also important to remember the flip-side. We as a community need to make sure that we don't become super ban-happy, as that actually does drive a lot of people away. For example, OWL has been heavily criticized for being too ban-happy to the point of policing what their players say in twitch chat. I don't think behavior from the people at TF2Center or the UGC forums who ban people left and right for "offences" that are pretty much harmless is healthy for a small game like TF2. Now, in my opinion, bans should be given out to people who harass or heavily insult others after warnings when the infraction occurs using the service, or their forums. This issue should be handled carefully and thought should be put into each case.
DarkNecridhttps://i.imgur.com/EKi05gB.jpg
You're actually right. Now that I think about it, every game that's become a successful esport has 1 thing in common: a friendly, welcoming community! Just ask loltyler1, who can probably speak for hours on end about all the polite people he met in League of Legends - or play CS:GO matchmaking and tremble from excitement upon seeing all the friendly faces you encounter! Our TOXIC community is definitely the reason why (hypothetical) sponsors turn a blind eye to the community and not because we are on our way out in terms of video game pop culture, have negative developer support from a company that released updates that worked against the competitive community for years, a declining playerbase because there is no opportunity for anything at all
[quote=DarkNecrid][img]https://i.imgur.com/EKi05gB.jpg[/img][/quote]
You're actually right. Now that I think about it, every game that's become a successful esport has 1 thing in common: a friendly, welcoming community! Just ask loltyler1, who can probably speak for hours on end about all the polite people he met in League of Legends - or play CS:GO matchmaking and tremble from excitement upon seeing all the friendly faces you encounter! Our TOXIC community is definitely the reason why (hypothetical) sponsors turn a blind eye to the community [s]and not because we are on our way out in terms of video game pop culture, have negative developer support from a company that released updates that worked against the competitive community for years, a declining playerbase because there is no opportunity for anything at all[/s]
I don't have a strong opinion on the banning side of this issue
But my issue is that for the sake of being edgy or being a meme or funny to their 7 friend circlejerk people are making offensive, rude and honestly disgusting remarks.
I think the scale of this stuff is forgotten, women (and men) kill themselves over sexual abuse (and its not just a few), they self harm and they break mentally. Some dont even speak out for this exact reason, being shamed.
How can you possibly make a "joke" and mockery of this sort of stuff when it is someones life? Like an actual life, not a thing an actual fucking human beings life. Their life is as complex as yours; its not just another entity for you to mess with and play with.
And then you dare sit there and justify what you're saying? Thinking you're a decent human being? Its honestly disgusting and vile. The thought of sexual harassment and rape makes me feel sick and shaky and it doesn't even phase some to the point where they can make a "joke".
Just vile.
Disclaimer: I dont know the extent of the sexual abuse involved, but any form is disgusting and in no way am I suggesting or insinuating that suicide or self harm is involved with this particular topic, im stating that it does happen and frequently.
I don't have a strong opinion on the banning side of this issue
But my issue is that for the sake of being edgy or being a meme or funny to their 7 friend circlejerk people are making offensive, rude and honestly disgusting remarks.
I think the scale of this stuff is forgotten, women (and men) kill themselves over sexual abuse (and its not just a few), they self harm and they break mentally. Some dont even speak out for this exact reason, being shamed.
How can you possibly make a "joke" and mockery of this sort of stuff when it is someones life? Like an actual life, not a thing an actual fucking human beings life. Their life is as complex as yours; its not just another entity for you to mess with and play with.
And then you dare sit there and justify what you're saying? Thinking you're a decent human being? Its honestly disgusting and vile. The thought of sexual harassment and rape makes me feel sick and shaky and it doesn't even phase some to the point where they can make a "joke".
Just vile.
Disclaimer: I dont know the extent of the sexual abuse involved, but any form is disgusting and in no way am I suggesting or insinuating that suicide or self harm is involved with this particular topic, im stating that it does happen and frequently.
" Muuki
isocial media platforms and twitch chat are just very poor places to start crying about your personal problems,"
Do you know if you are looking for any kind of jobs, recruiters check your social media platform? We no longer live in stone age. Social media gives a very good idea of a person.Social media is one of the best platform to do business in this day and age.
I have been seeing a majority of people use slurs ,racist comments towards other. Please keep in mind it reflects how you grew up as a person and your families upbringing.
Its a sad day to be a part of TF2 community .
[b] " Muuki
isocial media platforms and twitch chat are just very poor places to start crying about your personal problems," [/b]
Do you know if you are looking for any kind of jobs, recruiters check your social media platform? We no longer live in stone age. Social media gives a very good idea of a person.Social media is one of the best platform to do business in this day and age.
I have been seeing a majority of people use slurs ,racist comments towards other. Please keep in mind it reflects how you grew up as a person and your families upbringing.
Its a sad day to be a part of TF2 community .
people can say whatever they want in a free society
grow a thicker skin, being tormented on the internet isn't the end of the world. if it doesn't feel good feel free to torment others too. you're allowed.
the more you try to separate yourself from your feelings getting hurt the more you're gonna get hurt when you can't prevent it anymore. i try to spread positivity and love to anyone who does the same to me and i think this is the only way to minimize negative encounters with others. not to say there won't be conflicts, especially with prejudiced or bigoted individuals but at the end of the day you have to be a bigger person, not silence their voice.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Fm9z4LGDs]people can say whatever they want in a free society[/url]
grow a thicker skin, being tormented on the internet isn't the end of the world. if it doesn't feel good feel free to torment others too. you're allowed.
the more you try to separate yourself from your feelings getting hurt the more you're gonna get hurt when you can't prevent it anymore. i try to spread positivity and love to anyone who does the same to me and i think this is the only way to minimize negative encounters with others. not to say there won't be conflicts, especially with prejudiced or bigoted individuals but at the end of the day you have to be a bigger person, not silence their voice.
InternetIntellectualDarkNecridhttps://i.imgur.com/EKi05gB.jpg
You're actually right. Now that I think about it, every game that's become a successful esport has 1 thing in common: a friendly, welcoming community! Just ask loltyler1, who can probably speak for hours on end about all the polite people he met in League of Legends - or play CS:GO matchmaking and tremble from excitement upon seeing all the friendly faces you encounter! Our TOXIC community is definitely the reason why (hypothetical) sponsors turn a blind eye to the community and not because we are on our way out in terms of video game pop culture, have negative developer support from a company that released updates that worked against the competitive community for years, a declining playerbase because there is no opportunity for anything at all
Nobody ever said this is about becoming an esport. This isn't about TF2. This is about not being okay with harassing sexual abuse victims. If harassing sexual abuse victims is a normal thing in esports then let's not become an esport. You missed the entire point of this thread. epic
[quote=InternetIntellectual][quote=DarkNecrid][img]https://i.imgur.com/EKi05gB.jpg[/img][/quote]
You're actually right. Now that I think about it, every game that's become a successful esport has 1 thing in common: a friendly, welcoming community! Just ask loltyler1, who can probably speak for hours on end about all the polite people he met in League of Legends - or play CS:GO matchmaking and tremble from excitement upon seeing all the friendly faces you encounter! Our TOXIC community is definitely the reason why (hypothetical) sponsors turn a blind eye to the community [s]and not because we are on our way out in terms of video game pop culture, have negative developer support from a company that released updates that worked against the competitive community for years, a declining playerbase because there is no opportunity for anything at all[/s][/quote]
Nobody ever said this is about becoming an esport. This isn't about TF2. This is about not being okay with harassing sexual abuse victims. If harassing sexual abuse victims is a normal thing in esports then let's not become an esport. You missed the entire point of this thread. epic
faust_people can say whatever they want in a free society
grow a thicker skin, being tormented on the internet isn't the end of the world. if it doesn't feel good feel free to torment others too. you're allowed.
the more you try to separate yourself from your feelings getting hurt the more you're gonna get hurt when you can't prevent it anymore. i try to spread positivity and love to anyone who does the same to me and i think this is the only way to minimize negative encounters with others. not to say there won't be conflicts, especially with prejudiced or bigoted individuals but at the end of the day you have to be a bigger person, not silence their voice.
Sure people can say whatever the fuck they want, but they are NOT protected from people saying shit back to them or ostracizing them for what they say. The 1st only protects what you can say from govt action and coincidentally it also ONLY applies to people in the US, neither Uberchain nor the morons are US citizens.
So I got no fuckign idea what you are on about, but you should really stop tying to justify this shit with so little information because your ignorance is showing.
[quote=faust_][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Fm9z4LGDs]people can say whatever they want in a free society[/url]
grow a thicker skin, being tormented on the internet isn't the end of the world. if it doesn't feel good feel free to torment others too. you're allowed.
the more you try to separate yourself from your feelings getting hurt the more you're gonna get hurt when you can't prevent it anymore. i try to spread positivity and love to anyone who does the same to me and i think this is the only way to minimize negative encounters with others. not to say there won't be conflicts, especially with prejudiced or bigoted individuals but at the end of the day you have to be a bigger person, not silence their voice.[/quote]
Sure people can say whatever the fuck they want, but they are NOT protected from people saying shit back to them or ostracizing them for what they say. The 1st only protects what you can say from govt action and coincidentally it also ONLY applies to people in the US, neither Uberchain nor the morons are US citizens.
So I got no fuckign idea what you are on about, but you should really stop tying to justify this shit with so little information because your ignorance is showing.
ballzySenotsBum told me to tell you that if you chat anymore shit hell be inserting his fist in your mouth too
Making a threat of violence publically like this could never go wrong!
https://i.imgur.com/WOHFEwT.png
[quote=ballzy][quote=Senots]Bum told me to tell you that if you chat anymore shit hell be inserting his fist in your mouth too[/quote]
Making a threat of violence publically like this could never go wrong![/quote]
https://i.imgur.com/WOHFEwT.png
faust_ being tormented on the internet isn't the end of the world. if it doesn't feel good feel free to torment others too. you're allowed.
This is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why the hell would you want people to have to go around tormenting each other just to feel better about themselves?
[quote=faust_] being tormented on the internet isn't the end of the world. if it doesn't feel good feel free to torment others too. you're allowed. [/quote]
This is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why the hell would you want people to have to go around tormenting each other just to feel better about themselves?
god damn just lock this already
god damn just lock this already
http://i.imgur.com/JXbxhAi.gif
Doesn't get any more simple than that. Treat each other right.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JXbxhAi.gif[/img]
Doesn't get any more simple than that. Treat each other right.
sendgod damn just lock this already
just dont open this thread, whats the problem?
[quote=send]god damn just lock this already[/quote]
just dont open this thread, whats the problem?
Tino_
i was more addressing any individuals living in the u.s who agree with the premise that people shouldn't be allowed to say what they want to say, i.e 'several anonymous messages telling me i bought more harm to comp tf2 than good.' this is not something someone should ever be punished for, ever. you literally cannot validate silencing someone for having an opinion on your role because you don't like what they said.
i do agree that you can only let people say whatever they want as long as it doesn't call upon direct conflict. if someone says they're gonna sneak into your house and off you for example, yea you're good to ban them, and maybe consider talking to an authority rather than the ban police
what i was on about is as a community it's a pretty shitty idea to create rules on what people can or cannot say because it's extremely difficult to regulate. it's not easy to consistently ban people with fairness if you don't have a measurable way to do so. for example, if someone is cheating and it can be proved without reasonable doubt, you can ban them. and what i would suggest is that you should not be able to ban someone for hate speech unless it calls upon conflict, as i mentioned before.
[quote=Tino_][/quote]
i was more addressing any individuals living in the u.s who agree with the premise that people shouldn't be allowed to say what they want to say, i.e 'several anonymous messages telling me i bought more harm to comp tf2 than good.' this is not something someone should ever be punished for, ever. you literally cannot validate silencing someone for having an opinion on your role because you don't like what they said.
i do agree that you can only let people say whatever they want as long as it doesn't call upon direct conflict. if someone says they're gonna sneak into your house and off you for example, yea you're good to ban them, and maybe consider talking to an authority rather than the ban police
what i was on about is as a community it's a pretty shitty idea to create rules on what people can or cannot say because it's extremely difficult to regulate. it's not easy to consistently ban people with fairness if you don't have a measurable way to do so. for example, if someone is cheating and it can be proved without reasonable doubt, you can ban them. and what i would suggest is that you should not be able to ban someone for hate speech unless it calls upon conflict, as i mentioned before.
ymRaisinThis is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why the hell would you want people to have to go around tormenting each other just to feel better about themselves?
i never suggested people should go around tormenting each other, i simply said you are allowed to, just as they are allowed to call you bad at video games or ugly.
[quote=ymRaisin]This is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why the hell would you want people to have to go around tormenting each other just to feel better about themselves?[/quote]
i never suggested people should go around tormenting each other, i simply said you are allowed to, just as they are allowed to call you bad at video games or ugly.
I can't comprehend how much of an utter piece of shit you have to be to argue for hours to try and justify being a raging asshole to an abuse victim who does so much for our community.
I can't comprehend how much of an utter piece of shit you have to be to argue for hours to try and justify being a raging asshole to an abuse victim who does so much for our community.
"so what we should just ban everyone who says the n-word now?"
yes please, learn to act like fucking adults
you've genuinely been deluded by the internet if you don't think there's a difference between calling someone bad at video games and throwing slurs around.
"so what we should just ban everyone who says the n-word now?"
yes please, learn to act like fucking adults
you've genuinely been deluded by the internet if you don't think there's a difference between calling someone bad at video games and throwing slurs around.
ymRaisin]
This is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why the hell would you want people to have to go around tormenting each other just to feel better about themselves?
2% of people will aim for an animal crossing the road.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/27/drivers-intentionally-run-over-turtles-college-experiment_n_2371485.html
these people will target the emotionally weakest and most easy to upset group of people because unleashing your sadistic urges on people they perceive as mentally ill gives them a feeling of power and impact on someone else, they'd never have elsewise.
How about complimenting each other to feel better about yourselves?? Like i swear some guys never ever got a compliment thrown their way and struggle with self esteem issues and it makes them so happy, to hear something positive.
[quote=ymRaisin]]
This is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why the hell would you want people to have to go around tormenting each other just to feel better about themselves?[/quote]
2% of people will aim for an animal crossing the road.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/27/drivers-intentionally-run-over-turtles-college-experiment_n_2371485.html
these people will target the emotionally weakest and most easy to upset group of people because unleashing your sadistic urges on people they perceive as mentally ill gives them a feeling of power and impact on someone else, they'd never have elsewise.
How about complimenting each other to feel better about yourselves?? Like i swear some guys never ever got a compliment thrown their way and struggle with self esteem issues and it makes them so happy, to hear something positive.
I think the main problem with some top TF2 players is that they think they’re untouchable by the community just because they’re good at the game and have people look up to them, they don’t think about anything else but winning and it’s clear that they don’t understand the consequences of what they say, and it’s a bit appalling people actually standing up for them. This originated from someone calling out another playing rightfully so, but words can hurt as well, verbal abuse etc etc, I know this is just another comment on this whole situation but what happened to being a community? All it seems is some top players don’t even care, and it’s a shame, racial, transphobic, religious slurs shouldn’t be used so freely, people have feelings, everyone has feelings, this is a good thing for all of us, people coming out and pointing out potentially threats or verbal abusers and toxic people. I believe these types of things deserve a ban because they’re clearly going to keep using these slurs and words and in normal society it’s not acceptable, it shouldn’t be any different on a game. I’m glad that people are being pointed out and stories about horrible and a bit upsetting acts from this community. These slurs shouldn’t be used as a joke, they’re offensive and not even funny. Dark humour is a thing but that’s different to being inconsiderate to other players. TF2 competitive has become a joke and people wonder why tf2 dosent get sponsored, if we want this to become popular or become a better community we need to remove people like this who give TF2 a bad reputation. I didn’t want to comment this since I’m afraid of possible backlash but I feel some people feel similarly and as a community we can do great things and gain a better reputation but only if we call out and rid of the toxicity the way people see TF2 live. We are already a great community, but we can be better without people like these.
I think the main problem with some top TF2 players is that they think they’re untouchable by the community just because they’re good at the game and have people look up to them, they don’t think about anything else but winning and it’s clear that they don’t understand the consequences of what they say, and it’s a bit appalling people actually standing up for them. This originated from someone calling out another playing rightfully so, but words can hurt as well, verbal abuse etc etc, I know this is just another comment on this whole situation but what happened to being a community? All it seems is some top players don’t even care, and it’s a shame, racial, transphobic, religious slurs shouldn’t be used so freely, people have feelings, everyone has feelings, this is a good thing for all of us, people coming out and pointing out potentially threats or verbal abusers and toxic people. I believe these types of things deserve a ban because they’re clearly going to keep using these slurs and words and in normal society it’s not acceptable, it shouldn’t be any different on a game. I’m glad that people are being pointed out and stories about horrible and a bit upsetting acts from this community. These slurs shouldn’t be used as a joke, they’re offensive and not even funny. Dark humour is a thing but that’s different to being inconsiderate to other players. TF2 competitive has become a joke and people wonder why tf2 dosent get sponsored, if we want this to become popular or become a better community we need to remove people like this who give TF2 a bad reputation. I didn’t want to comment this since I’m afraid of possible backlash but I feel some people feel similarly and as a community we can do great things and gain a better reputation but only if we call out and rid of the toxicity the way people see TF2 live. We are already a great community, but we can be better without people like these.
So far i have learned from this thread,shittalk and calling people from other teams nasty words in game chat/twitch is fine however racism and ''harassment''(which isn't that different) - completely unacceptable and should be punished
So far i have learned from this thread,shittalk and calling people from other teams nasty words in game chat/twitch is fine however racism and ''harassment''(which isn't that different) - completely unacceptable and should be punished
i just want someone to clarify something real quick. when did all the standards we learn in real life become null and void in our community? like, i get that we all need a little escape from reality but i thought we all played tf2? we all support each other, even if we have rivals or people who we don't like. i know i do but i would leave that at the door when it comes to the overarching community we have here. now im not gonna sit here and act high and mighty because im not. im just perplexed at the attitude of some people in our community towards this.
from here i think we should all think of how to move on and fix this as a community, im not saying forgive others for what they've done but learn to better ourselves in our actions in the competitive environment. stop thinking of tf2 as an up-and-coming esport, think more of the quake live/3 scene. we are a tight-knit community and singling out members as attention-seeking victim card players is stupid when most of us have met or played together in some capacity. we are a really dysfunctional family that is getting smaller and smaller for all the wrong reasons, and we need to take some level of responsibility for that.
tl;dr: we are all humans in a small scene that need to be responsible for our actions and reflect on our conduct in the community as a whole.
i just want someone to clarify something real quick. when did all the standards we learn in real life become null and void in our community? like, i get that we all need a little escape from reality but i thought we all played tf2? we all support each other, even if we have rivals or people who we don't like. i know i do but i would leave that at the door when it comes to the overarching community we have here. now im not gonna sit here and act high and mighty because im not. im just perplexed at the attitude of some people in our community towards this.
from here i think we should all think of how to move on and fix this as a community, im not saying forgive others for what they've done but learn to better ourselves in our actions in the competitive environment. stop thinking of tf2 as an up-and-coming esport, think more of the quake live/3 scene. we are a tight-knit community and singling out members as attention-seeking victim card players is stupid when most of us have met or played together in some capacity. we are a really dysfunctional family that is getting smaller and smaller for all the wrong reasons, and we need to take some level of responsibility for that.
tl;dr: we are all humans in a small scene that need to be responsible for our actions and reflect on our conduct in the community as a whole.