at the game being boring

the best way to lane is throwing yourself at the enemy over and over and ignoring the actual moba mechanics which is boring

getting cheap wins because the game is badly designed is boring

sorry that i feel disappointed because a developer i used to respect made a game which i think looks like irredeemable garbage that looks like it was made with about as much passion as the fortnite team puts into designing the next battlepass cosmetics

btw the fact that the smite 2/smite remake/whatever you wanna call it early alpha comes out literally tomorrow is great and hirez has the opportunity to do the funniest thing

have you considered that you may be facing people who have never touched a moba in their life, thus giving you a warped perception on the flow of the game?
that being said, i also dislike the art deco style of the game. none of the characters look particularly appealing to me. for all i know, i could be hovering the most fun hero ever made but their looks put me off.

if in roughly 80 hours i managed to not play a single game where the things i do feel mechanically or strategically satisfying whether i win or lose then i'm either the world's unluckiest person or the game has straight up nothing to offer me

i dont understand who the game is for, is it for smite players overwatch players or dota players

i like mo and krill because they look funny and cool B)

https://i.imgur.com/mQsMAc5.png

i love pvp games where you don't get to do pvp 80% of the time

during overwatch beta me and my friends would pubstomp by all going bastion and just shooting everyone in the head with a lot of bullets without ever going turret mode

the game is for dota players that sort of liked tf2 5-10 years ago

super monday night combat players

as a dota player this game is not as nearly refined as dota, though it is still in ea i guess so

the TTK is faster even in dota at lvl 1 lol

its funny seeing dota spells as abilities in this game though lol

i genuinely think you're correct

I have played Dota 2 and Deadlock, and I honestly don't understand why you call Dota more refined. There has been an unpatched midas bug for how many days now? You win 3 lanes and the enemy carry just abuses the midas bug, gets top networth and you lose. Valve doesn't even give a shit. Enemy Lone Druid can crash the server when you push their ancient? Just remove the hero lmao, fuck patching the game in time, who needs to do that? At least Deadlock doesn't suffer from these retarded ass bugs, while Dota has them nearly every single fucking patch.

sometimes u just know when someone has 4000 hours in a game from the way they post about it

they added hanzo and bkb to the same game

dota 2 having bugs does not make deadlock more mechanically refined

in fact you can ignore most mechanics in deadlock so far and just +w in lane

also if valve "doesnt give a shit" that means deadlock, when more bugs arise will suffer the same way so idk why youre getting so tweaked

this is exactly like when league of legends players call league the worst game ever and riot a dogshit company because one character has had 53% win rate for longer than a patch

do you understand how insane that sounds

Yea the characters don't really shine and hopefully their personalities and designs are a lot more fleshed out nearing release. Also, the colors are very neutral and greyish, brownish, sewer waterish looking which... looks like sewage. It doesn't need a super bright color palette to have more contrasting colors on the heroes or their outfits.

I die inside whenever somebody says Deadlock is in any way shape or form like TF2 (not saying you are). It's so unmistakably different even if they've never played it and are only spectating but I reconcile that by assuming that's their way of getting excited for Deadlock and/or trying it out.

This seems to be the closest thing to Deadlock and chances are that we'll end up seeing a lot of Dota players in getting into Deadlock or at least trying it for the same reason as League to Valorant, but with a greater effect because it's still a moba and with way more similarities in this case. It'll draw a lot of Dota players but because shooting + abilities, you automatically pull some of the hero shooter playerbase and moba players in general.

This game is here to stay unless Valve somehow fucks this up tremendously. You already have people grinding this game for 12+ hour sessions and it's surprisingly playable in its current build. Its even had a small NA tournament already.

good game. i like

bad game. I don't like

y don't like? (besides it still being in testing stages)

going to preface this by saying I've only played a little bit, and I have have very little moba experience. To me, deadlock just seems like how someone would have originally designed dota if they werent working within the confines of being a warcraft III mod. I was never a fan of mobas because I found the controls tedious for little benefit over other systems. For example, optimal movement in league requires you to click on the ground right in front of you as fast as you can which is very tedious. I also don't like how in traditional mobas you cant see enemies 100 feet in front of you because of the camera angle. Yes, there's gamesense and strategies you use to get around that limitation but I still don't think anybody would ever go "the issue with this 3rd person camera is that you can see things in the distance, so lets make it top down so you cant see anything".

Before playing, I found the idea of shooting at creeps unfun. However, I found it surprisingly engaging. I actually like last hitting more in this context over regular mobas because if it wasn't for that, then laning would basically be a kovaaks scenario. However, I do like that it does ask you to make quick shots here and there to deny and optimize your soul farming.

I have not experienced enough of the game to comment on the abilities and my takes on this matter are nothing new. Stuns are annoying and lame, like yohnny.

What is really holding me back from really liking the game is the movement system. I like that there are dashes, slides, wall jumps, double jumps, etc, but its all done in a very 1 dimensional, pass/fail sort of way. Dash jumping would be so much more interesting if it didnt require you to to time your inputs specifically, and instead the distance you gain from jumping is determined by at what point of the dash you decided to jump. The movement needs to be more analog and less binary. I'm not expecting there to be tf2 level rocket jumping or anything, but i do want it to feel more source-like. Its just so lame that if you mistime a dash jump, the game goes "error: incorrect timing!" instead of just having you do a gimped dash jump.

i genuinely don't know where you got the impression that optimal movement in league requires spamclicking "right in front of you as fast as you can"

it's a game with a right click to move unit control scheme

in an active fight you move your unit closer or further away from the enemy between attacks and out of a fight you just click where you want to go

literal rts controls

it's genuinely just a matter of what you're used to because to me, the more traditional action camera and controls are making it 10x more confusing for me to tell what's going on because i don't have the 360° awareness that the traditional rts isometric view and the ability to move the camera independent of your character afford you

I'm not a league player, but according to my brief research when I was looking into the game, you have more control over your character when the distances you ask them to walk are shorter, which makes sense because of pathfinding and all that, along with it just generally being efficient in terms of how you move your mouse. This seems to mostly be relevant during team fights and when you're trying to juke people. If I am wrong about this about optimal clicking distance in league thats fine. Regardless of distance though, I am certain that you do need to click a lot to be competitive, which I find straining and annoying.

As for the cons/pros of the different camera angles. I think the benefits of top down are way more apparent in an actual RTS, so thats why i have no issue with that angle in that genre.

I get your point about it being harder to have full awareness because of it being 3rd person. If good players have issues with randomly getting flanked all the time, then maybe its an issue that can be dealt with by refining the map, as its pretty complicated and theres a ton of different ways to traverse it. Maybe its like a tf2 map that has too many flank routes to watch.

the reason why strategy games have overhead cams and why league and dota have overhead cams is exactly the same

both strategy games and mobas require you to have perfect awareness of your surroundings and the ability to quickly swap the camera between different positions on the map for the sake of being able to see what's actually going on

i don't mean this as a slight but the only reason why you don't see the benefits of a top down view in a moba in the same way that you can see the benefits when it comes to strategy games is because of unfamiliarity with the genre

it's not superfluous or a relic from warcraft 3, the camera point of view is an active conscious design decision and its absence is one of the main reasons why deadlock feels so fucking awful to me as it doesn't go nearly hard enough into the direction of the action game part of the mashup to actually justify the perspective shift in any way and it just results in everything feeling like a disorientating blur

its alright. ive never played a single moba before in my life and from what ive seen, i can see why so many people like the moba genre so much. the "aiming" though is more of a cherry on top, it is very much first and foremost a moba, not just a third person shooter. outside of the simple aiming mechanics, what disappoints me the most is the movement. for a "source game", the movement does not feel like a source game at all. you can "dash" on the ground and in the air that you do from pressing a button, which takes up "stamina" that has a cooldown to recharge. while im sure it has a lot of depth, it is very, very overwatch, and i mean that in the worst possible way. maybe its because of the genre, maybe for a moba this stiff movement is necessary, but for a shooter its not appealing. neither is the art direction. obviously nothing is finalized, its a beta after all, but many parts of this game lean into "soulless" territory (except ivy, her design is peak.)

I've put a whopping 25 hours into the game now and have read some reddit threads about the philosophy of moba game design. As expected, CC seems to a huge point of contention between the shooter side of the playerbase and the moba side. I found a thread talking about how in mobas, CC is necessary because its the only way you can reasonably outplay an opponent who is straight up statistically superior to you everyone else on your team. This makes a lot of sense as its not like you can have much room to out aim or maneuver your opponent. Since so much of people's skill expression is based on positioning, you have to punish bad punishing super hard by making them stay in that bad position.

The issue with this in a moba shooter hybrid like deadlock, is that now you have aim and movement as a way for players to outplay each other. If the shooting was less forgiving, then it would be easier to outplay a stronger opponent because you were able to hit your shots and they were not. In the game's current state though, the items you get from earning souls are so powerful that even a small difference in souls gets you to a point where you don't really need to worry about missing your shots. If they made these items less powerful and the shooting less forgiving, then it would be much more feasible to kill a stronger player by flanking them or landing your shots.

I'm sure CC will always be in the game, so I'd like to see them make CC more interesting for both players and for viewers. I'm totally fine with the softer forms of CC like the walls you can put up and the ice dome thing you can trap people in. My issue lies almost entirely around the hard stuns, as they're huge impactful plays, but theyre so boring on every level besides their context. Instead of stuns, I'd like to see stuff like players getting launched up into the air and taking extra damage from your projectile ability depending on how high up they are. This would lead to cool moments where you were only able to kill the obese opponent because you waited until they were as high up as possible before firing your follow up attack.

There are so many times in this game where I don't even bother attacking because I just know that I am statistically incapable of killing my opponent and all I can do is run away. you really never get that feeling you do in tf2 where you get forced into a scout 1v1 at only 34 hp and then you win the fight because you juked their shots while landing 2 meatshots. I honestly think its best that the game isn't as aim dependent as tf2, but I think a nudge towards emphasizing shooter skills would let the devs put much less emphasis on using CC to outplay people.

One thing I really like about this game is the melee system. you can do a quick jab by pressing q or you can charge it to do a heavy melee attack. If you think a player is about to melee you, you can parry them by pressing F. If you're timing was right, you are rewarded by stunning your opponent for a few seconds. The stun is kinda lame, but it does feel really good if you're the one landing the parry. to its credit, it feels more like stunning your opponent in smash or street fighter. What I like about the melee is that its very useful in the game and not just a trolling/desperation tool. You charge ahead during your melee which greatly increases the number of situations where its a relevant part of your toolkit, reload times are pretty lengthy so melee is often your best option, and if you melee a creep you get their souls instantly which means they can't be denied. Melee'ing creeps adds a lot of depth to laning stage as now you have a good reason to position yourself aggressively.

if you make it so gold doesn't matter and most emphasis is on pure mechanical player skill then what's the point of this even being a moba

thats not what theyre saying, they just wish the cc mechanics are more interactive in this game. cc has a place in mobas for a reason, but that doesnt mean valve cant nudge it atleast a little bit towards the shooter aspect, considering (atleast from what ive seen) its the biggest complaint about deadlock.

from what ive played and seen, a moba can be fun, but when you add this new dimension of aim into it there has to be some compromise in mechanics.

what i was trying to say was that even if your opponent only has a small soul advantage, it can be really difficult to kill them by out-deathmatching them because items are very strong. I'd like items to be slightly less powerful (not weak) so that the its a bit easier to outplay people with a small soul lead by catching them off guard. Its not that making plays like this is completely impossible right now, I just wish the range of the soul difference where this is possible was larger.

smnc gameplay was different compared to this iirc, felt slightly simpler & faster paced

ROCKET JUMPING

https://files.catbox.moe/rcobxp.webm