totally depends on if the 2007 team had time to learn the map

The meta has evolved so much and DM has radically increased since those days, so I take it the open team would win granted they aren't complete newbies. If you look at fragmovies from 2007, for example, you are shown shots that you can see the average pub player pull off these days. People have gotten a lot better DMwise, which makes sense. That being said, it's a bit of a pointless comparison to make as it does not account for the inherent talent those players had. To be that good at the game that early in its development required a great amount of skill and you can't really factor that into comparisons like these because they work on the assumption Reptile and his teammates have been stuffed into a cryogenic freezer until now.

Can somebody link som frag movies from back then? It'd be interesting to watch

i mean, the only value is as a thought experiment, but that in itself is pretty fun

i guess it comes down to the technicalities of it though.

are you putting the two teams on a server and telling them to insta rup? or are you giving them an hour's, a day's, a week's notice so that the old team had time to look up map reviews, etc

i think u guys r overestimating open player dm and the dm of the first top comp players lol. and i say this as the guy that usually poops on the way fossils played this game.

The match shall be held on cp_dustbowl and cp_well.

Someone should host an old school cup where they play all the oldschool comp maps, would be fun 2 watch

No unlocks, revert sticky nerf and medi gun speed, maybe even give demo 30 reserve ammo (nerfed to 16 in 2008). Even 2fort was played in comp back in the day. The true 2007 experience. Engineer metal cost has to be reverted as well.

yeah idk how good open players are these days but im pretty sure that even in 2007 if u were winning invite on scout ur hitscan was probably pretty good since most of them had probably grown up grinding cs and quake anyways

https://youtu.be/USs0abj0e3g

trigger warning: random crits and 4:3

if a 2007 player got fast rollout spooned on mid their brain would dissolve into fine powder

probably because the spoon doesn't exist in 2007

reptile summons crits and everyone on the open team dies

I think top players probably had comparable aim but I don't think scouts back then were as good at ADAD spamming so they weren't as hard to hit as they are now

Scout is gonna have the closest dm capability. all that adad shit u learn from quake LG duel

id like to pretend quake players had aim as good as tf2 players back then and now they can only manage 15% lg cause of their age…….

I can't believe any of you think a team from 2007 is going to beat a team of open players in 2021

I can't tell if this is self-deprecating or not... there is no chance 6 players from a time when almost no one played the game seriously at a competitive level is going to beat 6 players from 2021

wtf?

people were still learning the game, so i doubt a team from 2007 could beat a team from 2021

Do you specifically add some sass to every post you make here since switching games?

My friend Bungus just installed the game a month ago and already has better game sense and DM than 99% of ancients. Players once revered for strategic prowess like PYYYOUR and THE FRAGILE are now instantly outdone by people like Bungus who has only been playing for 100 hours and is 15 years old

are we talking esea open level or amateur/newcomer level in RGL
because esea open level is closer to like IM or Main in RGL
esea open level could maybe beat a boomer team but newcomer/amateur players last I checked don't even know rollouts

Setup a match between some of us that stopped in the 2013-2014 timeframe and see how we fare against high open players or something, 2007 is way too far removed. I'm not sure if the meta is significantly different, but I can't imagine everyone at the open level has incredible DM nowadays. Happy to be proven wrong.

probably worth mentioning that open players now have literally played the game longer than the 2007 team during their time

neither did they

before ESEA started TF2 in 2009 and eventually moved to LANs in 2010, there really wasn't a lot of motivation for people to compete and improve. the players who were the best back then were almost by default better than most of their competition because of previous experience in games like TFC. by the time ESEA picked up TF2 (ESEA season 3), reptile wasn't playing on the same team (some of those people disappeared) and he wound up losing to a mix of, by his standards, "newcomers" in TF2. a few months down the line in season 6, a team with harbleu and mesr won grand finals. and by next season, eMg won, putting Yz, banny, tyrone, mackey, ggly and shade at the #1 spot in NA. this is just to show how quickly things escalated once LAN came to ESEA and new talent funneled in, playing to improve and win. as games grow and age, not only does the base level of knowledge improve drastically, but statistically as new players continue to give the game a try, there will be more and more talent flowing in, and probability-wise, more talented than the first notable team ever in the game.

this is along the same lines as the silly arguments like "quake players are the best fps gamers on the planet," or "competition was harder back in the day." games like overwatch, valorant, [new title] attract an insane amount of talent compared to TF2 in 2007. whether or not you respect the games is irrelevant; the money, fame, and financial stability results in a deluge of talented players trying to make a name for themselves and become the best. and this is without even mentioning all of the tools people have today to improve, from studying and improvising on playstyles from the past, to grinding aim trainers all day.

long story short if you took a team from 2007, showed them nothing from today, put them on their best map with all original unlocks vs an open team with the same unlocks from 2021, the 2007 team would get rolled. sorry, it is what it is.

And if u think the 2007 team are going to have it hard when they play against the 2021 team just wait until they find out about coronavirus.

@reptile my team vs yours, 9:30 tmr(can't do 10:30 my pocket has a bedtime) be there or be square

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhSinkXMR4Y
This one is pretty cool still

Editing-wise this old broder one slaps too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fCpAuxrQ_I

what I'm getting from this is that most people here don't perceive a real difference between 2007 tf2 and, like, 2010 tf2.

when teams first switched over from quake and ns, things were ugly and muddled, and the really talented tf2 players hadn't yet been sorted out. the first really dominant team emerged in 2008, which was reptile's pandemic, but by like mid 2009 they had been surpassed by carnage's squad (and him and relic hadn't switched over to quake as early as some other players).

by the time you get to 2010, you've had col/loaded with carnage and jaeger and those guys around for a while, blight.fanom with TLR and ruwin shows up, the other blight has harbleu and platinum, and then you get emg with b4nny and yz50 and x6 with kalkin tlr and harb by the end of the year. by 2012 you already have the sick original mixup lineup (pure, enigma, ruwin, tlr, harbleu, platinum). you also have the gunboats, which had started to become more common (though not universal, and not for pockets rly until tri and chess club among a few others). in short, tf2 had changed a LOT in that window.

if we are talking an actual 2007 team, they'd basically just be above-average pub players. by 2010-2012, you have a real team on your hands. would that team beat a modern-day open team? not sure. I think they'd be really good at certain things in comparison (comms and being on the same page, ground rocket aim, scout aim), and significantly worse in others (jumps, movement, demos being used to modern stickies, how much is expected of medics these days). my guess is they could have a shot on granlands ofc, and maaaaybe snake or gully, but would get steamrolled on slightly newer map designs.

I guess if by 'open' you mean newcomers the old team would win, but if we mean the equivalent of esea-open (so like rgl im or main) the latter teams would prolly win.

Unless Platinum was the demo. I swear that guy was the only demo whose DPM went UP after the sticky nerf.

That's the thing though, if we shift from 07 to 09, depending on the 09 team, they win. If we're making a team of 09 players? It gets lopsided, since you'd get most of the Mix^ core. I'd take washed mixup over an open team.