It is broke, and I am fixing it.
People don't seem to realize that you have mappers like me willing to fix your maps' problems on their own time, for free. I offered to fix Granary, don't say that it "ain't broke" when people complain about these issues all the time.

I recommend telling me all your suggestions as I'm near done with the fix and I'll have it out within a week or so for teams to test. That is, if you guys actually want a fixed Granary - nobody really answered that yet. Would it be worth putting my time into this, or is there issues that would prevent the fixed version from being played?

Thanks for your support.

Having the same hiding spots on both sides would be nice imo. I'm really happy to see the spawns fixed.

would make holding yard impossible. other team bombs their roamer off a double for a force/picks repeatedly.

also: please leave the silos in, just put em on blue side as well. one of the few spots in the game where a roamer can synch rockets to get a med drop on his own.

What silos? The ones in yard?

cp_granary_pro and cp_granary_proest are 2 modified versions of granary that have already addressed most of the things people are talking about in this thread (red spawns, equal hiding spots, symmetry etc).

You can download them here: http://rotabland.eu/maps/maps.php

Yes. I've heard of those maps, along with cp_granary_fixed and others.

My question is:
Why aren't these maps played in league if they're supposedly 'fixed'?

The only reason I would release this is to have it replace the old, asymmetrical granary.
If I knew why these aren't played so I can correct mine to make it be played, that would be GREAT.

I honestly don't know. My guess for ETF2L is that there just isn't a big enough demand to get the normal cp_granary replaced.

Here's a pretty broken spot that's only available on Red side: The garage door railing in Red lunchbox. You can get up on top on Red side, but not on Blu(the roof is flat on Blu so you don't have enough room). Not only can you hide there, but you can also taunt to see into yard for free and look at some important areas without committing at all.

http://i.imgur.com/ckzgu3Q.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7AWd8Y3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aqYNRE9.jpg

yes. the ones in red yard right outside of 2

this would be cool as long as it doesn't fuck up splash damage.

Displacements don't usually mess with splash. I mean something like you have all over snakewater, where it doesn't really affect gameplay but makes the map less boring.

I think that large open choke would be an awesome change. Also as every said fix all the imbalances between sides.

I wish dropdown saw more use in general. Not sure how to make it more useful. Perhaps one of those 1 way windows similar to the snakewater dropdown. Without it you're basically just tossing a coin if your dropping down for a med force or something. Also perhaps make it wider to allow jumping up it. Basically make it identical to the snakewater dropdown I guess.

To answer your question: Yes, I would like a fixed granary. But I don't have the power to put it into a league rotation.

Also, thanks for doing this

There are a lot of weird corners and chokey things on the map that are just a bit annoying to play with. I think it would be cool to have all the doors on the map a little wider and taller.

One HUGE thing that many people overlook with the map are the SHADOWS on granary. Blu has a major advantage because shadows will appear on the walls even when they are not against them, while Red has only very few shadow spots to look out for. A change in this would make teams on granary a little bit more balanced.

Unfortunately this is not a map issue, it is an engine issue.
The version of Source renders dynamic shadows in the weirdest way, and it's not entirely viable to be able to fix them without VALVe's direct help.
Additionally, the SDK is breaking tomorrow due to the impending SteamPipe update, so I won't be able to work on this map until VALVe releases the new SDK (valve time!).

Silly homer, Dropdown works because it's an unconventional option, as dropdowns should be. If it was made more viable you would essentially have 4 possible ways to push out of and into second, and considering how enclosed the point is that doesn't sound very pleasant.

The thing i dislike the most is the design of second, so clustered up.
Same for having to get into yard/mid going through the garage and having to pop before you even see them. but i guess that´s just part of the map.

You can just make the sun angle straight down and it will fix most of the problem

...Can we petition ESEA to use proest over stock? The open choke is amazing. There's a fully viable fast roamer rollout to the enemy healthpack with it, and the high ceiling could go a long way to reducing the stalematey-ness of 2nd-mid.

granary mid is already shitty enough for demo, why make it even shittier with 200 hp roamers on your health pack when you have 70. And yard is only stalematey because teams don't have the balls to just push into the side that the enemy combo isn't on.

It'd be more interesting though. Might make right side balcony and garage rollouts better than the left side ones.

It's way counterproductive to make a midfight more interesting for one class at the expense of some viability, versatility and survival of others.

Oh, that was confusing. I thought rr- was playing devil's advocate or something, then I realized that you just messed up the quote, haha

dont overlook this please

Also, i don't know how to fix the Z on second, but it's hardly worth being there as is.

I consider a fast rollout to be an extremely minor advantage for a roamer, and the potentially improved 2-3 choke would be worth it to me. If it's any consolation, each of the four jumps from second have to be hit pretty much perfectly if you're going to clear the crate. If you don't, you're stuck in the middle of the point without ammo.

It's a big advantage when you have the ability to fuck over the demos midfights any time you want to with a much higher percentage than just bombing them when everyone gets to mid. The jumps themselves aren't very hard and could be learnt to be done in quick succession rather quickly for anyone already half decent at jumping.

The potential benefits you would get from opening up yard slightly (it really doesn't do much at all) are outweighed by the negatives/positives of having good roamers in the game.

Just leave mid as it is.

Maybe I shouldnt have pointed it out. Fast rollouts really aren't a big deal. Best case scenario for this one is you take the health pack and the demo waits an extra couple seconds for the medic

Except no good, coordinated team would give away such an opportunity to take out the enemy demo, bear in mind on a fast rollout on gran the roamer has a good 5 seconds (basically arriving same time as the demo) before the scouts arrive and about 10 seconds before the combo arrives. I think it's a bigger deal than you realize.