I think the majority of people viewing the article don't give a shit about people who comment on kotaku either so hopefully they wont be swayed by that.
Kotaku article on TF2 mm
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
I think the majority of people viewing the article don't give a shit about people who comment on kotaku either so hopefully they wont be swayed by that.
AcyridIf tf2 will have in comp ranks, smurf inc
if?
[quote=Acyrid]If tf2 will have in comp ranks, smurf inc[/quote]
if?
if?
AcyridIf tf2 will have in comp ranks, smurf inc
what is the point of smurfing in TF2 when you can just go join a valve server that uses nearly the same ruleset that matchmaking will have
[quote=Acyrid]If tf2 will have in comp ranks, smurf inc[/quote]
what is the point of smurfing in TF2 when you can just go join a valve server that uses nearly the same ruleset that matchmaking will have
what is the point of smurfing in TF2 when you can just go join a valve server that uses nearly the same ruleset that matchmaking will have
FirenaajjWhat's the difference between csgo pubs and mm except for team size and tickrate?AcyridIf tf2 will have in comp ranks, smurf inc
what is the point of smurfing in TF2 when you can just go join a valve server that uses nearly the same ruleset that matchmaking will have
start with kevlar and head armor
start with $1000 instead of $800
ranks
bomb timers
round timers
penalty for leaving
tickrate is the exact same between mm and pubs
[quote=Fire][quote=naajj][quote=Acyrid]If tf2 will have in comp ranks, smurf inc[/quote]
what is the point of smurfing in TF2 when you can just go join a valve server that uses nearly the same ruleset that matchmaking will have[/quote]
What's the difference between csgo pubs and mm except for team size and tickrate?[/quote]
start with kevlar and head armor
start with $1000 instead of $800
ranks
bomb timers
round timers
penalty for leaving
tickrate is the exact same between mm and pubs
what is the point of smurfing in TF2 when you can just go join a valve server that uses nearly the same ruleset that matchmaking will have[/quote]
What's the difference between csgo pubs and mm except for team size and tickrate?[/quote]
start with kevlar and head armor
start with $1000 instead of $800
ranks
bomb timers
round timers
penalty for leaving
tickrate is the exact same between mm and pubs
Wall of text incoming; you have been warned.
Some of the comments mentioned smash bros, and now that I think about it, there actually are some parallels between TF2 and Smash Bros (especially Melee).
Both appear on the surface to be silly, free-for-all, and cartoon-y games, especially because of items and the overall look and cast for Smash, and the built-for-pubbing slew of weapon unlocks, maps, and modes for TF2. But, beneath all that the core mechanics of both allow for very deep, competitive styles of play. Both had the problem of seeming too casual at one point, though obviously smash bros has moved beyond that as the competitive scene is now in the spotlight. TF2 hasn't yet. Some discover the competitive side and don't like it because it deviates from what they consider to be the "right (and only) way" to play the game.
Competitive Smash Bros was underground for most of its life until it got huge pretty recently. Competitive TF2 is small but kept alive pretty much by the community alone for now, similar to how Smash was many years ago (Smash is still largely community-driven, but it has attracted lots of large esports organizations and sponsors). I really hope TF2 can follow the same path that Smash has. I hope matchmaking breaks the boundary between pubs and competitive, and introduces more people to competitive and gets them interested, and perhaps we will have the same success eventually!
Wall of text incoming; you have been warned.
Some of the comments mentioned smash bros, and now that I think about it, there actually are some parallels between TF2 and Smash Bros (especially Melee).
Both appear on the surface to be silly, free-for-all, and cartoon-y games, especially because of items and the overall look and cast for Smash, and the built-for-pubbing slew of weapon unlocks, maps, and modes for TF2. But, beneath all that the core mechanics of both allow for very deep, competitive styles of play. Both had the problem of seeming too casual at one point, though obviously smash bros has moved beyond that as the competitive scene is now in the spotlight. TF2 hasn't yet. Some discover the competitive side and don't like it because it deviates from what they consider to be the "right (and only) way" to play the game.
Competitive Smash Bros was underground for most of its life until it got huge pretty recently. Competitive TF2 is small but kept alive pretty much by the community alone for now, similar to how Smash was many years ago (Smash is still largely community-driven, but it has attracted lots of large esports organizations and sponsors). I really hope TF2 can follow the same path that Smash has. I hope matchmaking breaks the boundary between pubs and competitive, and introduces more people to competitive and gets them interested, and perhaps we will have the same success eventually!
Some of the comments mentioned smash bros, and now that I think about it, there actually are some parallels between TF2 and Smash Bros (especially Melee).
Both appear on the surface to be silly, free-for-all, and cartoon-y games, especially because of items and the overall look and cast for Smash, and the built-for-pubbing slew of weapon unlocks, maps, and modes for TF2. But, beneath all that the core mechanics of both allow for very deep, competitive styles of play. Both had the problem of seeming too casual at one point, though obviously smash bros has moved beyond that as the competitive scene is now in the spotlight. TF2 hasn't yet. Some discover the competitive side and don't like it because it deviates from what they consider to be the "right (and only) way" to play the game.
Competitive Smash Bros was underground for most of its life until it got huge pretty recently. Competitive TF2 is small but kept alive pretty much by the community alone for now, similar to how Smash was many years ago (Smash is still largely community-driven, but it has attracted lots of large esports organizations and sponsors). I really hope TF2 can follow the same path that Smash has. I hope matchmaking breaks the boundary between pubs and competitive, and introduces more people to competitive and gets them interested, and perhaps we will have the same success eventually!
It's such an uphill struggle trying to change the public perception of TF2, it's a truly arduous task. Even the tf2 reddit is a fairly favourable view, given that they're the people most keen or involved in TF2. Tapping into this even-more-casual playerbase and changing people's views on competitive is gonna be slow work.
It's such an uphill struggle trying to change the public perception of TF2, it's a truly arduous task. Even the tf2 reddit is a fairly favourable view, given that they're the people most keen or involved in TF2. Tapping into this even-more-casual playerbase and changing people's views on competitive is gonna be slow work.
I think the comparisons to smash are unfair, if only b/c melee in particular had a lot of advantages to deal with its issues; most notably, understanding melee as a spectator is almost instant, since the core mechanics all immediately connect to each other, in ways I can't see an FPS ever reasonably doing... but I do think you could get something out of what melee's done.
melee's issue for years was never actually the game, but the stigma against it being so strong, people actively refused to watch others play in tournament. once melee got into evo in 2013, people started to actually, genuinely watch it, and it snowballed from there. I can see a similar issue in TF2:, since you'll see competitive channels with 5+ digits in views for highlights/weekly shows all the time, but the second the same ppl start uploading full games, nobody's willing to watch
I think the comparisons to smash are unfair, if only b/c melee in particular had a lot of advantages to deal with its issues; most notably, understanding melee as a spectator is almost instant, since the core mechanics all immediately connect to each other, in ways I can't see an FPS ever reasonably doing... but I do think you could get something out of what melee's done.
melee's issue for years was never actually the game, but the stigma against it being so strong, people actively refused to watch others play in tournament. once melee got into evo in 2013, people started to actually, genuinely watch it, and it snowballed from there. I can see a similar issue in TF2:, since you'll see competitive channels with 5+ digits in views for highlights/weekly shows all the time, but the second the same ppl start uploading full games, nobody's willing to watch
melee's issue for years was never actually the game, but the stigma against it being so strong, people actively refused to watch others play in tournament. once melee got into evo in 2013, people started to actually, genuinely watch it, and it snowballed from there. I can see a similar issue in TF2:, since you'll see competitive channels with 5+ digits in views for highlights/weekly shows all the time, but the second the same ppl start uploading full games, nobody's willing to watch
What's wrong with the comments though? It's mostly people showing their lack of knowledge about competitive (which nicely illustrates the whole issue here) and some other comments of people saying how they've tried comp, but they didn't like it because it was a completely different experience from pubbing (which is true) and the pubbing experience is what they like more. But let's call them retards because they don't like the same thing as we do, right? It's not like it's personal preference or anything.
What's wrong with the comments though? It's mostly people showing their lack of knowledge about competitive (which nicely illustrates the whole issue here) and some other comments of people saying how they've tried comp, but they didn't like it because it was a completely different experience from pubbing (which is true) and the pubbing experience is what they like more. But let's call them retards because they don't like the same thing as we do, right? It's not like it's personal preference or anything.
trashunderstanding melee as a spectator is almost instant, since the core mechanics all immediately connect to each other, in ways I can't see an FPS ever reasonably doing.
What's confusing about tf2 mechanics? New spectators mightn't appreciate clutch med arrows or speedshots but they'll generally know how characters are being controlled. As a complete outsider to Smash, I can't see Melee as more than unintelligible pixelated noise.
6s is hard to follow because the action is spread across a map. The camera and casters can't catch everything. You see comments like "6s is stale" and "it's just players running around doing random stuff" from new viewers because they don't have the gamesense to fill in the blanks and see the bigger picture. They don't expect it to be complicated to begin with. Instead of teamwork like bait plays or pushes, pubbers see class lineups. It's a widely held belief that TF2's strategy goes no further than a rock scissor paper game of class selection.
The lineups are so ridged that you rarely encounter a moment where you need to solve a problem on the fly like a normal game of tf2 you might be playing against a team that's 3 engineers two heavies and a medic
[quote=trash]understanding melee as a spectator is almost instant, since the core mechanics all immediately connect to each other, in ways I can't see an FPS ever reasonably doing.[/quote]
What's confusing about tf2 mechanics? New spectators mightn't appreciate clutch med arrows or speedshots but they'll generally know how characters are being controlled. As a complete outsider to Smash, I can't see Melee as more than unintelligible pixelated noise.
6s is hard to follow because the action is spread across a map. The camera and casters can't catch everything. You see comments like "6s is stale" and "it's just players running around doing random stuff" from new viewers because they don't have the gamesense to fill in the blanks and see the bigger picture. They don't expect it to be complicated to begin with. Instead of teamwork like bait plays or pushes, pubbers see class lineups. It's a widely held belief that TF2's strategy goes no further than a rock scissor paper game of class selection.
[quote]The lineups are so ridged that you rarely encounter a moment where you need to solve a problem on the fly like a normal game of tf2 you might be playing against a team that's 3 engineers two heavies and a medic[/quote]
What's confusing about tf2 mechanics? New spectators mightn't appreciate clutch med arrows or speedshots but they'll generally know how characters are being controlled. As a complete outsider to Smash, I can't see Melee as more than unintelligible pixelated noise.
6s is hard to follow because the action is spread across a map. The camera and casters can't catch everything. You see comments like "6s is stale" and "it's just players running around doing random stuff" from new viewers because they don't have the gamesense to fill in the blanks and see the bigger picture. They don't expect it to be complicated to begin with. Instead of teamwork like bait plays or pushes, pubbers see class lineups. It's a widely held belief that TF2's strategy goes no further than a rock scissor paper game of class selection.
[quote]The lineups are so ridged that you rarely encounter a moment where you need to solve a problem on the fly like a normal game of tf2 you might be playing against a team that's 3 engineers two heavies and a medic[/quote]
I never said TF2 was confusing, so much as I was saying that fighting games are instant in understanding them at the core, which is sort of their major thing
you might not immediately understand how a MOBA works (not so much that it's confusing, mind, simply enough that you won't figure it out within seconds), but super smash bros is "people hit each other, one of them hits really hard and the other person makes an explosion effect outside of the camera, they lost a life", and that's really easy for someone who never plays any game seriously before to understand.
it sounds like nothing--and from a player's standpoint, it basically is nothing--but it makes the stigma really easy to bypass once you get someone to watch a full match, since they quickly get into it
I never said TF2 was confusing, so much as I was saying that fighting games are instant in understanding them at the core, which is sort of their major thing
you might not immediately understand how a MOBA works (not so much that it's [i]confusing[/i], mind, simply enough that you won't figure it out within seconds), but super smash bros is "people hit each other, one of them hits really hard and the other person makes an explosion effect outside of the camera, they lost a life", and that's really easy for someone who never plays any game seriously before to understand.
it sounds like nothing--and from a player's standpoint, it basically is nothing--but it makes the stigma really easy to bypass once you get someone to watch a full match, since they quickly get into it
you might not immediately understand how a MOBA works (not so much that it's [i]confusing[/i], mind, simply enough that you won't figure it out within seconds), but super smash bros is "people hit each other, one of them hits really hard and the other person makes an explosion effect outside of the camera, they lost a life", and that's really easy for someone who never plays any game seriously before to understand.
it sounds like nothing--and from a player's standpoint, it basically is nothing--but it makes the stigma really easy to bypass once you get someone to watch a full match, since they quickly get into it
It's a good read but it's treading the same ground as before, but I think Sideshow makes a great point:
SideshowI don’t think most competitive players have wrapped their heads around this, but [competitive matchmaking] definitely means compromising what we consider the competitive integrity of 6v6,”
The competitive format has to change if you want this game to appeal to the masses. This is an unpopular reality you will have to accept. Personally I am happy to sit here and play it out in ETF2L.
It's a good read but it's treading the same ground as before, but I think Sideshow makes a great point:
[quote=Sideshow]I don’t think most competitive players have wrapped their heads around this, but [competitive matchmaking] definitely means compromising what we consider the competitive integrity of 6v6,” [/quote]
The competitive format has to change if you want this game to appeal to the masses. This is an unpopular reality you will have to accept. Personally I am happy to sit here and play it out in ETF2L.
[quote=Sideshow]I don’t think most competitive players have wrapped their heads around this, but [competitive matchmaking] definitely means compromising what we consider the competitive integrity of 6v6,” [/quote]
The competitive format has to change if you want this game to appeal to the masses. This is an unpopular reality you will have to accept. Personally I am happy to sit here and play it out in ETF2L.
knowledgeable esports expert M'aiqIt is exactly right that competitive TF2 doesn’t resemble everyone else’s TF2. They’re basically not even the same game, and if you’re used to the unmanaged chaos of regular TF2, competitive TF2 just doesn’t seem like much fun.
Basically, competitive TF2 is TF2 from 2008, and hasn’t really advanced much beyond that. The only way you could play a more primitive version of the game is load up the Orange Box for XBOX 360. Competitive TF2's problem is that they demand everyone go back in time to when they play, rather than evolve into what everyone else plays. Competitive match making will not help the comp scene get big.
yeah this is what competitive tf2 is like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkEanM-DNX8
totally
[quote=knowledgeable esports expert M'aiq]It is exactly right that competitive TF2 doesn’t resemble everyone else’s TF2. They’re basically not even the same game, and if you’re used to the unmanaged chaos of regular TF2, competitive TF2 just doesn’t seem like much fun.
Basically, competitive TF2 is TF2 from 2008, and hasn’t really advanced much beyond that. The only way you could play a more primitive version of the game is load up the Orange Box for XBOX 360. Competitive TF2's problem is that they demand everyone go back in time to when they play, rather than evolve into what everyone else plays. Competitive match making will not help the comp scene get big.[/quote]
yeah this is what competitive tf2 is like
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkEanM-DNX8[/youtube]
totally
Basically, competitive TF2 is TF2 from 2008, and hasn’t really advanced much beyond that. The only way you could play a more primitive version of the game is load up the Orange Box for XBOX 360. Competitive TF2's problem is that they demand everyone go back in time to when they play, rather than evolve into what everyone else plays. Competitive match making will not help the comp scene get big.[/quote]
yeah this is what competitive tf2 is like
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkEanM-DNX8[/youtube]
totally
DavidTheWinProbably the best written mainstream article about comp TF2 ever though.
mfw my face is in a kotaku article
i also had this face when i saw my face
props to sideshow and enigma though. great read.
[quote=DavidTheWin]Probably the best written mainstream article about comp TF2 ever though.
mfw my face is in a kotaku article[/quote]
i also had this face when i saw my face
props to sideshow and enigma though. great read.
mfw my face is in a kotaku article[/quote]
i also had this face when i saw my face
props to sideshow and enigma though. great read.
trashbut super smash bros is "people hit each other, one of them hits really hard and the other person makes an explosion effect outside of the camera, they lost a life", and that's really easy for someone who never plays any game seriously before to understand.
to play devil's advocate, and as a sidebar.. for years, going back to the first smash game.. i never understood it, because of the percentages. i was like yes, obviously someone eventually gets knocked off. and i assumed the percentages were health.. but then, they go PAST 100%? so how can that be health? 13-year-old me did not understand this at all.
glad you did bring up smash though, because there are many parallels which you've outlined well
[quote=trash]but super smash bros is "people hit each other, one of them hits really hard and the other person makes an explosion effect outside of the camera, they lost a life", and that's really easy for someone who never plays any game seriously before to understand.[/quote]
to play devil's advocate, and as a sidebar.. for years, going back to the first smash game.. i never understood it, because of the percentages. i was like yes, obviously someone eventually gets knocked off. and i assumed the percentages were health.. but then, they go PAST 100%? so how can that be health? 13-year-old me did not understand this at all.
glad you did bring up smash though, because there are many parallels which you've outlined well
to play devil's advocate, and as a sidebar.. for years, going back to the first smash game.. i never understood it, because of the percentages. i was like yes, obviously someone eventually gets knocked off. and i assumed the percentages were health.. but then, they go PAST 100%? so how can that be health? 13-year-old me did not understand this at all.
glad you did bring up smash though, because there are many parallels which you've outlined well
if ur playing tf2 competitively, youre playing tf2 all wrong.
if ur playing tf2 competitively, youre playing tf2 all wrong.
do0mif ur playing tf2 competitively, youre playing tf2 all wrong.
is this a quote or are you just a mongoloid?
[quote=do0m]if ur playing tf2 competitively, youre playing tf2 all wrong.[/quote]
is this a quote or are you just a mongoloid?
is this a quote or are you just a mongoloid?
Of course the comments are going to be like that because
1.its kotaku, you have to be genuinely retarded to visit that website for anything remotely informal/news worthy
2.The competitive community and pub community are basically 2 entirely different entities that hate each other. The competitive community hates the pubbers because they don't actually play the game nor give a fuck about improving and would rather spam lennys and sit in a trade server trading hats for 10 cent profits because apparently that was always fun in tf2. the pubbers hate the competitive community because they actually give a shit about the game and aren't autistic enough to care about fucking cosmetics and sitting in spawn congaing like a downs child.
Of course the comments are going to be like that because
1.its kotaku, you have to be genuinely retarded to visit that website for anything remotely informal/news worthy
2.The competitive community and pub community are basically 2 entirely different entities that hate each other. The competitive community hates the pubbers because they don't actually play the game nor give a fuck about improving and would rather spam lennys and sit in a trade server trading hats for 10 cent profits because apparently that was always fun in tf2. the pubbers hate the competitive community because they actually give a shit about the game and aren't autistic enough to care about fucking cosmetics and sitting in spawn congaing like a downs child.
1.its kotaku, you have to be genuinely retarded to visit that website for anything remotely informal/news worthy
2.The competitive community and pub community are basically 2 entirely different entities that hate each other. The competitive community hates the pubbers because they don't actually play the game nor give a fuck about improving and would rather spam lennys and sit in a trade server trading hats for 10 cent profits because apparently that was always fun in tf2. the pubbers hate the competitive community because they actually give a shit about the game and aren't autistic enough to care about fucking cosmetics and sitting in spawn congaing like a downs child.
To be honest matchmaking is literally like when brawl was at EVO. I don't understand why you guys expect randoms on kotaku to understand the depth of tf2, stop being surprised by that, it's the general reactíon to competitive games by a casual audience.
To be honest matchmaking is literally like when brawl was at EVO. I don't understand why you guys expect randoms on kotaku to understand the depth of tf2, stop being surprised by that, it's the general reactíon to competitive games by a casual audience.
unfdo0mif ur playing tf2 competitively, youre playing tf2 all wrong.is this a quote or are you just a mongoloid?
it's a quote. he also says
ChuckcharlesZWho they hell am I to judge how people extract enjoyment from a silly, team-based shooter? I mean, some evenings I will only play Payload. Other nights it’s payload races, or Mann vs Machine, or playing Scout only equipped with the Holy Mackerel.
If you prefer the vanilla experience then by all means enjoy yourselves. Meanwhile I’ll be over here slapping people to death with a fish.
going around with a stock melee reskin isn't even vanilla it's the empty ice cream cone game mode :(
[quote=unf][quote=do0m]if ur playing tf2 competitively, youre playing tf2 all wrong.[/quote]
is this a quote or are you just a mongoloid?[/quote]
it's a quote. he also says
[quote=ChuckcharlesZ]Who they hell am I to judge how people extract enjoyment from a silly, team-based shooter? I mean, some evenings I will only play Payload. Other nights it’s payload races, or Mann vs Machine, or playing Scout only equipped with the Holy Mackerel.
If you prefer the vanilla experience then by all means enjoy yourselves. Meanwhile I’ll be over here slapping people to death with a fish.[/quote]
going around with a stock melee reskin isn't even vanilla it's the empty ice cream cone game mode :(
is this a quote or are you just a mongoloid?[/quote]
it's a quote. he also says
[quote=ChuckcharlesZ]Who they hell am I to judge how people extract enjoyment from a silly, team-based shooter? I mean, some evenings I will only play Payload. Other nights it’s payload races, or Mann vs Machine, or playing Scout only equipped with the Holy Mackerel.
If you prefer the vanilla experience then by all means enjoy yourselves. Meanwhile I’ll be over here slapping people to death with a fish.[/quote]
going around with a stock melee reskin isn't even vanilla it's the empty ice cream cone game mode :(
The lineups are so ridged that you rarely encounter a moment where you need to solve a problem on the fly like a normal game of tf2 you might be playing against a team that's 3 engineers two heavies and a medic and some randoms and you'll have to figure out how to combat that other team.
I used to play a lot of TF2 with my wife’s son and we got so good that we even dabbled in some high level competitive 6v6 pick up games called “lobbies”. Unfortunately we found the competitive players to generally be extremely angry and without any sense of humor whatsoever when it comes to their teammate’s weapon choices or individual performance. Nowadays we just play league together as it’s a much more laidback and enjoyable experience.
what
[quote]The lineups are so ridged that you rarely encounter a moment where you need to solve a problem on the fly like a normal game of tf2 you might be playing against a team that's 3 engineers two heavies and a medic and some randoms and you'll have to figure out how to combat that other team.[/quote]
[quote]I used to play a lot of TF2 with my wife’s son and [b]we got so good that we even dabbled in some high level competitive 6v6 pick up games called “lobbies”[/b]. Unfortunately we found the competitive players to generally be extremely angry and without any sense of humor whatsoever when it comes to their teammate’s weapon choices or individual performance. [b]Nowadays we just play league together as it’s a much more laidback and enjoyable experience.[/b][/quote]
what
[quote]I used to play a lot of TF2 with my wife’s son and [b]we got so good that we even dabbled in some high level competitive 6v6 pick up games called “lobbies”[/b]. Unfortunately we found the competitive players to generally be extremely angry and without any sense of humor whatsoever when it comes to their teammate’s weapon choices or individual performance. [b]Nowadays we just play league together as it’s a much more laidback and enjoyable experience.[/b][/quote]
what
I want to kill myself more then I have ever in my life
I want to kill myself more then I have ever in my life
You should have stopped taking it seriously the second you saw "my wife's son". Pretty funny how people actually passed that by like it's an average phrase.
You should have stopped taking it seriously the second you saw "my wife's son". Pretty funny how people actually passed that by like it's an average phrase.
Niko_JimsYou should have stopped taking it seriously the second you saw "my wife's son". Pretty funny how people actually passed that by like it's an average phrase.
It's missing "when I get to see him on weekends".
[quote=Niko_Jims]You should have stopped taking it seriously the second you saw "my wife's son". Pretty funny how people actually passed that by like it's an average phrase.[/quote]
It's missing "when I get to see him on weekends".
It's missing "when I get to see him on weekends".
Niko_JimsYou should have stopped taking it seriously the second you saw "my wife's son". Pretty funny how people actually passed that by like it's an average phrase.
makes sense if he isn't the father
[quote=Niko_Jims]You should have stopped taking it seriously the second you saw "my wife's son". Pretty funny how people actually passed that by like it's an average phrase.[/quote]
makes sense if he isn't the father
makes sense if he isn't the father
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