yeah

Just for the sake of discussion what would be the problem with having a whitelist like this one? I think the game would still be fun to play.

http://whitelist.tf/7142

Also the Medic buff where he runs as fast as a Scout should be reverted it's retarded.

is it apparent that unbanning unlocks makes the game less fun and won't magically cause valve to care for this game yet

I wouldn't say the game would just 'still' be fun to play

It would be substantially more enjoyable

This unlock madness serves no purpose other than to convolute and slow down the pace of the game

yeah I agree with this for a large majority of the items
most of the items in the game just seem redundant, silly or cheesy, which is all just kinda meh

hell even the old etf2l whitelist would be better than this. I'd go back to that or the old esea whitelist any day

medic running at scout speed made medic interesting and more fun to play imo

also that list has way too many bans

its great for stalemates when medics are way harder to kill
everyone knows stalemates make the game way more interesting ...

holy shit stooooooooop

Only edits I'd make to that whitelist: allow crossbow as it makes for a more aggressive style of gameplay, allow vaccinator as it it encourages team coordination, allow quickiebomb because it makes for a more aggresive demo, allow market gardener because it greatly adds to the spectator's value of viewing, allow winger because it creates a more 3D play environment, allow hats because it adds modernness to a game that to the average viewer looks very vintage and outdated, allow jarate because it makes sniper usable in a team fight and therefore encourages pushing off smaller advantages, allow loose cannon because it gives demo a higher skill ceiling (IMO), allow cow mangler because less needing to go for ammo = more aggression.

These are my opinions, and it's mecha I'm replying to, so I expect at least one disagreement lol.

new whitelist for scrims and matches
stock, pain train, gunboats, winger, kritz, ubersaw, boston basher, equalizer, iron bomber and stock reskins
you can keep the current retard whitelist for pugs
game is now 100% better
forgot about cloak and dagger and ambassador those are fine too

I like this whitelist, especially because market gardener is banned.

http://imgur.com/a/fc20r
paging seanbud

gunboats, basher and medlocks (-vaccinator) only please

idk how if feel about banning arrows. It might just be because I've never played without them but it feels like removing the only most fun thing about playing med. Get rid of everything else tho

http://i.imgur.com/TfOQjAo.png

I guess I'm in the minority, but none of the unbanned shit bothers me

I would be completely in favor of banning arrows here is why:

A *primary* part of playing medic, and in fact an intrinsic design decision that was made in the beta, was the concept of "critical" aka "kritz" heals. It encourages players who are hurt to back up and wait a moment before going in again as opposed to dying and waiting for respawn.

Arrows completely break that entire mechanic by allowing you to heal for absurd amounts to anybody who can stand still for a fraction of a second. The problem that it introduces into comp is that it makes it a lot easier to escape situations where you should certainly die by standing still for a bit, especially if there is some cover nearby. It also breaks up transition fights because the medic can ignore kritz heal and just arrow everybody to full in a greatly reduced period of time relative to the slowest heal rate.

The fact that they also screw up uber timings is also damaging to the game because it screws up one of the primary assumptions that people make when playing. /

I'm not totally opposed to arrows, and I'm not totally opposed to them granting *some* healing, but they should fire much more slowly and provide much less healing, and until they do that it's just silliness.

Not to mention that they also make playing as a team more difficult because peoples' health numbers can change tremendously just by taking an unseen arrow (making soldier more difficult, since your sacrifices are often reduced to nothing in a matter of seconds as long as a medic player can hit an arrow). In ye olden days if you would get something out of comming damage numbers, because you knew how much HP x person had and could try to block their access to healthpacks or their medic. But now they can just shoot an arrow from relative safety and their buddy gets 60+ hps.

Idk how the cow mangler gets to be a straight upgrade to stock and valve does nothing to balance it. It also throws the idea of ammo management out the window

Been meaning to ask, and since it's banned here but allowed in most whitelists, it's as good an opportunity as any. What's everyone's opinion on the winger? I don't see it discussed much, but at the same time it's not an uncommon loadout choice.

I think it should be banned because I don't think Scout needs more mobility options. It's also just as good at finishing off hurt players as Pistol is in my opinion because each shot does more damage and you'll be close when you shoot them with it anyway.

You can also chase Demomen in open areas and jump over stickies they put on the floor to try and deny you and not take damage.

That's just what I think. I'd really like to hear what better and more experienced players think though.

Banning crossbow will most likely reduce the amount of Medic mains.

Valve is never going to care about the competitive game enough for the global white list to even matter or be relevant to the scene, most of the unlocks are just plain silly for competitive play, tons of people dislike them and should be removed. Salvage what we have already for the competitive scene because its beyond help from valve at this point and its not going to see major growth in any form, so I don't see the point in adding in an array of unlocks that just, in my opinion, ruin the integrity of the competitive game. Mind as well enjoy it while it lasts IMO.

Id love to see arrows banned for many of the reasons marxist described and also arrow building is actually a completely unfun and stupid mechanic to play against. all the recent medic changes have lowered the class' skill ceiling in general and have made uber pushes/exchanges a complete bore to execute. nothing can be done about the medic speed mechanic but it 100% has made bad medics good and if you don't think so you're just wrong honestly.

also just another personal opinion on a particular unlock, I honestly think cloak and dagger was one of the worst inclusions into the competitive game, completely takes the skill (timing) out of actually using the class and making a play with it. it is just another unlock that just ends up rewarding bad players.

can't wait for the 9 page thread that goes nowhere

I've done 400+ damage to Demos and Soldiers where they don't die because they get arrowed several times in a fight.

If you hit a Demo for 200 damage you knew he wasn't going to be healthy or be in the fight because he'd have to get healed without having crit heals or go and run to get a pack. There are so many situations as a Demo where I should have died because I had bad positioning but I was able to get an arrow and jump away or be full health.

Soldier took 250-nevermind

It has been a while since we had a thread like this. I guess it was due...

http://i.imgur.com/kjPA0oZ.jpg

Bork!