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TF Competitive 6v6 Class Restrictions
91
#91
-7 Frags +
pajarohttps://i.imgur.com/NvCcTgu.png

That's not what "language" in the post even meant, it was a person forgetting definitions for words and syllogisms lol

Also calling everyone you dislike aimsadick kind of makes him sound super cool. That actually gives me an idea...

[quote=pajaro][img]https://i.imgur.com/NvCcTgu.png[/img][/quote]

That's not what "language" in the post even meant, it was a person forgetting definitions for words and syllogisms lol

Also calling everyone you dislike aimsadick kind of makes him sound super cool. That actually gives me an idea...
92
#92
8 Frags +
TynnyriFaust_3 [your profile] might be looked at by those interested in employing you to build up a bit of your overall profile.
No, that's not normal. Please find help. This is textbook obsessive behavior. A healthy mind doesn't think like this. Please find help. This is not a personal attack, I am not mad at you; seriously, find help now.

If you were an employer, would you not want to have the best possible idea of who you are employing?
If you met someone new in real life, would you not introduce yourself?

Online, in lieu of an introduction, you can set up a profile to give people an idea of who you are.
You are clearly aware of this concept as you have modified your public steam profile.

[quote=Tynnyri]

[quote=Faust_3] [your profile] might be looked at by those interested in employing you to build up a bit of your overall profile.[/quote]

No, that's not normal. Please find help. This is textbook obsessive behavior. A healthy mind doesn't think like this. Please find help. [b]This is not a personal attack, I am not mad at you; seriously, find help now.[/b][/quote]

If you were an employer, would you not want to have the best possible idea of who you are employing?
If you met someone new in real life, would you not introduce yourself?

Online, in lieu of an introduction, you can set up a profile to give people an idea of who you are.
You are clearly aware of this concept as you have modified your public steam profile.
93
#93
4 Frags +
Tynnyri- I don't think all specialist classes are made equal. Heavy, pyro, and spy are completely fine in my book and do not slow the gameplay too much even in 5CP (unless both teams are incompetent)

What do you base this opinion on? I think it's quite reasonable for people to want to get an idea of your experience level with 6s, especially if you are dropping these opinions without elaboration.

[quote=Tynnyri]
- I don't think all specialist classes are made equal. Heavy, pyro, and spy are completely fine in my book and do not slow the gameplay too much even in 5CP (unless both teams are incompetent)[/quote]

What do you base this opinion on? I think it's quite reasonable for people to want to get an idea of your experience level with 6s, especially if you are dropping these opinions without elaboration.
94
#94
-14 Frags +
hYm3nSl4yrIf you were an employer, would you not want to have the best possible idea of who you are employing?

Exactly! Thank you. Finally someone that is agreeing with me. As I've said previously, it's fine enough to check out someone's profile. (although it is kind of sad to do that due to a video game opinion)

Employers ask you questions to know you better - It would indeed be very creepy if they just started laying down random perceived flaws on the table as if conducting a Puritan examination for the Church of England. Probably not something you'd want in place of a proper introduction of a normal discussion.

[quote=hYm3nSl4yr]If you were an employer, would you not want to have the best possible idea of who you are employing?[/quote]

Exactly! Thank you. Finally someone that is agreeing with me. As I've said previously, it's fine enough to check out someone's profile. (although it is kind of sad to do that due to a video game opinion)

Employers ask you questions to know you better - It would indeed be very creepy if they just started laying down random perceived flaws on the table as if conducting a Puritan examination for the Church of England. Probably not something you'd want in place of a proper introduction of a normal discussion.
95
#95
4 Frags +

I'm not agreeing with you.

People are looking at your profile to get a better idea of you and your opinions. This is especially relevant, because how you perceive the current 6s class limits is tied to your experience level. If you've never even played 6s, how can we know that your arguments are made in good faith?

It will be difficult to find an experienced player who would agree with you. What you are suggested has already been tried.

Even in your sports analogy, arbitrary rules exist. Why is the triathlon distance distribution the way it is? Why am I not allowed to strap a motor to my bike? Why is certain equipment regulated? This is just how competition works.

I'm not agreeing with you.

People are looking at your profile to get a better idea of you and your opinions. This is especially relevant, because how you perceive the current 6s class limits is tied to your experience level. If you've never even played 6s, how can we know that your arguments are made in good faith?

It will be difficult to find an experienced player who would agree with you. What you are suggested has already been tried.

Even in your sports analogy, arbitrary rules exist. Why is the triathlon distance distribution the way it is? Why am I not allowed to strap a motor to my bike? Why is certain equipment regulated? This is just how competition works.
96
#96
-8 Frags +
hYm3nSl4yrI'm not agreeing with you.

Well I am not disagreeing with any part of what you wrote, so that's cool. You are applying what you said too, you're discussing with me instead of going to my profile to come up with your own obsessive theories. Honestly it seems like I agreed with everything you did and said. But you could always be lying, or not engaging in good faith I guess.

My guess is that you're trying to argue with me and change my mind, but I am just trying to have a basic discussion, I don't really mind admitting when we agree.

[quote=hYm3nSl4yr]I'm not agreeing with you.[/quote]

Well I am not disagreeing with any part of what you wrote, so that's cool. You are applying what you said too, you're discussing with me instead of going to my profile to come up with your own obsessive theories. Honestly it seems like I agreed with everything you did and said. But you could always be lying, or not engaging in good faith I guess.

My guess is that you're trying to argue with me and change my mind, but I am just trying to have a basic discussion, I don't really mind admitting when we agree.
97
#97
6 Frags +

That's great!

I disagree that checking someone's profile is creepy. It's a public profile.
It's only creepy when they've put in extra effort to uncover details that you didn't intend to disclose.

I also don't agree with you saying people need help / have mental issues.

That's great!

I disagree that checking someone's profile is creepy. It's a public profile.
It's only creepy when they've put in extra effort to uncover details that you didn't intend to disclose.

I also don't agree with you saying people need help / have mental issues.
98
#98
16 Frags +

Would you sign up for a running club and ask why they aren't doing triathlons?

They're allowed to engage in sport on the terms that they want to. They also probably wouldn't put much stock in your opinion about the most natural or competitive form of sport. They might even strava you to see if you have any relative experience or insight to back up your very strong opinions.

In case you were curious, the reason you're being dismissed out of hand is that basically this exact same idea was pitched eight years ago with "prolander". A guy who had the exact same arguments about why 6s is bad made a tournament with a big prize pool. The best players were interested in the money and competed. It died out not too long later because all the 6s players would rather play 6s, and the highlander players would rather play highlander. You can't just tell us that we're committing a logic fallacy when we tried it ourselves and decided that we would rather just do this instead. That's okay!

Also, none of the "stalking" is anything outside of the general norms of this game. It's pretty common to check someone's game logs--that's why we all have the plugin on our servers to upload them automatically. https://logs.tf/profile/76561198116072296 See, here you can with a few clicks see almost every game I've ever played as well as my steam account, RGL account, TF2Center account, UGC account, and ETF2L account. If you want, you're also free to find my ESEA account, but that may require a few more clicks. Feel free to look at any of that, it;s all public and not creepy to check out.

Would you sign up for a running club and ask why they aren't doing triathlons?

They're allowed to engage in sport on the terms that they want to. They also probably wouldn't put much stock in your opinion about the most natural or competitive form of sport. They might even strava you to see if you have any relative experience or insight to back up your very strong opinions.

In case you were curious, the reason you're being dismissed out of hand is that basically this exact same idea was pitched eight years ago with "prolander". A guy who had the exact same arguments about why 6s is bad made a tournament with a big prize pool. The best players were interested in the money and competed. It died out not too long later because all the 6s players would rather play 6s, and the highlander players would rather play highlander. You can't just tell us that we're committing a logic fallacy when we tried it ourselves and decided that we would rather just do this instead. That's okay!

Also, none of the "stalking" is anything outside of the general norms of this game. It's pretty common to check someone's game logs--that's why we all have the plugin on our servers to upload them automatically. https://logs.tf/profile/76561198116072296 See, here you can with a few clicks see almost every game I've ever played as well as my steam account, RGL account, TF2Center account, UGC account, and ETF2L account. If you want, you're also free to find my ESEA account, but that may require a few more clicks. Feel free to look at any of that, it;s all public and not creepy to check out.
99
#99
3 Frags +

Please play a season(or 2) of RGL/ETF2L 6s. You may be surprised about how many of your claims may be answered there.

Please play a season(or 2) of RGL/ETF2L 6s. You may be surprised about how many of your claims may be answered there.
100
#100
28 Frags +

whenever i re-open this thread i imagine this guy making an informational video essay about the subject with a furry avatar that smugly crosses its arms and pushes up its glasses at every opportunity

whenever i re-open this thread i imagine this guy making an informational video essay about the subject with a furry avatar that smugly crosses its arms and pushes up its glasses at every opportunity
101
#101
7 Frags +
durzowhenever i re-open this thread i imagine this guy making an informational video essay about the subject with a furry avatar that smugly crosses its arms and pushes up its glasses at every opportunity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ax62B_7NhY

[quote=durzo]whenever i re-open this thread i imagine this guy making an informational video essay about the subject with a furry avatar that smugly crosses its arms and pushes up its glasses at every opportunity[/quote]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ax62B_7NhY[/youtube]
102
#102
-11 Frags +
hYm3nSl4yrI disagree that checking someone's profile is creepy. It's a public profile.

It's only creepy when they've put in extra effort to uncover details that you didn't intend to disclose.

I agree. You've reached the same conclusion I have, and used the same premises to get there: That the effort put into uncovering completely unnecessary details in place of regular human interaction indeed is creepy and not normal.

[quote=hYm3nSl4yr]I disagree that checking someone's profile is creepy. It's a public profile.

It's only creepy when they've put in extra effort to uncover details that you didn't intend to disclose.[/quote]

I agree. You've reached the same conclusion I have, and used the same premises to get there: That the effort put into uncovering completely unnecessary details in place of regular human interaction indeed is creepy and not normal.
103
#103
7 Frags +

its literally 3 clicks from here to your steam reviews

its literally 3 clicks from here to your steam reviews
104
#104
-10 Frags +
hYm3nSl4yrits literally 3 clicks from here to your steam reviews

that is true.

[quote=hYm3nSl4yr]its literally 3 clicks from here to your steam reviews[/quote]

that is true.
105
#105
8 Frags +
TynnyriDrHappinessGood job comparing people giving critique to mental illness, really makes you seem like the reasonable one here.TynnyriI really hope the community doesn't only agree/disagree based on my playtime or my address, that's just sign of mild alexithymia
If people disagreed based on playtime, that is a sign of mild alexithymia.
I really hoped people didn't disagree based on playtime
I really hoped people didn't have mild alexithymia.

Alexithymia is a disability to form opinions. This is what you first described; Claiming most opinions here were formed on my playtime or steam reviews.
DrHappinessYour analogy didn't go over peoples heads, it made no sense.
These quotes show failures to grasp basic language and previous definitions.

You seem to lack the reading skills or/and the ability to do deductive reasoning. I don't know which it is or if it's both. Always possible you were just tired or have a reading disability, or just a bad day. Nonetheless, I hope we can discuss this when you get better.

"Alexithymia is characterized by an impaired ability to be aware of, explicitly identify, and describe one's feelings" (Nemiah et al., 1976)

tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.

[quote=Tynnyri][quote=DrHappiness]
Good job comparing people giving critique to mental illness, really makes you seem like the reasonable one here.
[/quote]

[quote=Tynnyri]I really hope the community doesn't only agree/disagree based on my playtime or my address, that's just sign of mild alexithymia [/quote]

If people disagreed based on playtime, that is a sign of mild alexithymia.
I really hoped people didn't disagree based on playtime
I really hoped people didn't have mild alexithymia.

Alexithymia is a disability to form opinions. This is what you first described; Claiming most opinions here were formed on my playtime or steam reviews.

[quote=DrHappiness]Your analogy didn't go over peoples heads, it made no sense.[/quote]

These quotes show failures to grasp basic language and previous definitions.

You seem to lack the reading skills or/and the ability to do deductive reasoning. I don't know which it is or if it's both. Always possible you were just tired or have a reading disability, or just a bad day. Nonetheless, I hope we can discuss this when you get better.[/quote]

"Alexithymia is characterized by an impaired ability to be aware of, explicitly identify, and describe one's feelings" (Nemiah et al., 1976)

tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.
106
#106
-3 Frags +

hey man, great to see another innovator trying to shake up this stale game! i actually posted some ideas for new class limitation modes previously on this form. feel free to take a look an let me know what you think :D

you can find them here: https://www.teamfortress.tv/64272/my-ideas-for-new-tf2-game-modes

hey man, great to see another innovator trying to shake up this stale game! i actually posted some ideas for new class limitation modes previously on this form. feel free to take a look an let me know what you think :D

you can find them here: https://www.teamfortress.tv/64272/my-ideas-for-new-tf2-game-modes
107
#107
-11 Frags +
Lotusberry tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.

Failing to form syllogisms or keep track of previously agreed upon definitions can be challenging, That's why making mistakes is completely fine - you can feel differently if you want.

DrHappiness said most here have alexithymia. I hoped that would not be the case. I'm sorry if that offended you and that you feel different.

...

Sorry, let's put that into a format you can grasp: aLExIthYMiA Is CHaRAcTERized By an impaired ABILiTY TO BE awaRE OF, eXpliCITlY iDeNtifY, and DeScrIbE oNE's fEELings

[quote=Lotusberry] tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.[/quote]

Failing to form syllogisms or keep track of previously agreed upon definitions can be challenging, That's why making mistakes is completely fine - you can feel differently if you want.

DrHappiness said most here have alexithymia. I hoped that would not be the case. I'm sorry if that offended you and that you feel different.

...

Sorry, let's put that into a format you can grasp: aLExIthYMiA Is CHaRAcTERized By an impaired ABILiTY TO BE awaRE OF, eXpliCITlY iDeNtifY, and DeScrIbE oNE's fEELings
108
#108
8 Frags +
TynnyriLotusberry tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.
Failing to form syllogisms or keep track of previously agreed upon definitions can be challenging, That's why making mistakes is completely fine - you can feel differently if you want.
...

Sorry, let's put that into a format you can grasp: aLExIthYMiA Is CHaRAcTERized By an impaired ABILiTY TO BE awaRE OF, eXpliCITlY iDeNtifY, and DeScrIbE oNE's fEELings

https://imgur.com/a/Zg88r5W

[quote=Tynnyri][quote=Lotusberry] tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.[/quote]

Failing to form syllogisms or keep track of previously agreed upon definitions can be challenging, That's why making mistakes is completely fine - you can feel differently if you want.
...

Sorry, let's put that into a format you can grasp: aLExIthYMiA Is CHaRAcTERized By an impaired ABILiTY TO BE awaRE OF, eXpliCITlY iDeNtifY, and DeScrIbE oNE's fEELings[/quote]
[url=https://imgur.com/a/Zg88r5W]https://imgur.com/a/Zg88r5W[/url]
109
#109
-2 Frags +

limit scout to one you say? where have i heard this one before

limit scout to one you say? where have i heard this one before
110
#110
-4 Frags +

https://youtu.be/9UiVtTR4aMY?si=TqBS8-S_PqWG-Tfn

[youtube]https://youtu.be/9UiVtTR4aMY?si=TqBS8-S_PqWG-Tfn[/youtube]
111
#111
1 Frags +
TynnyriIn Highlander, every class has restriction of 1. With 9 players, this forces 1 of each class. However, highlander never seems to devolve into a stalemate where neither team is attacking or defending. The "flow" of a match is pretty similar to a casual match in this regard

hello, it's impossible to stalemate in highlander because stalemate doesn't exist in koth/payload. The simple solution is to replace 5cp with payload in competitive 6s.
hope this helped further your understanding of the game and thank you for the splendid bait i really enjoyed reading it.

[quote=Tynnyri]
In Highlander, every class has restriction of 1. With 9 players, this forces 1 of each class. However, highlander never seems to devolve into a stalemate where neither team is attacking or defending. The "flow" of a match is pretty similar to a casual match in this regard[/quote]
hello, it's impossible to stalemate in highlander because stalemate doesn't exist in koth/payload. The simple solution is to replace 5cp with payload in competitive 6s.
hope this helped further your understanding of the game and thank you for the splendid bait i really enjoyed reading it.
112
#112
-10 Frags +
giannihello, it's impossible to stalemate in highlander because stalemate doesn't exist in koth/payload. The simple solution is to replace 5cp with payload in competitive 6s.

True, that is one solution as well.

[quote=gianni]hello, it's impossible to stalemate in highlander because stalemate doesn't exist in koth/payload. The simple solution is to replace 5cp with payload in competitive 6s. [/quote]

True, that is one solution as well.
113
#113
8 Frags +

why are you still posting, we don't want you here

why are you still posting, we don't want you here
114
#114
tf2pickup.org
7 Frags +
ivan_TynnyriLotusberry tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.
Failing to form syllogisms or keep track of previously agreed upon definitions can be challenging, That's why making mistakes is completely fine - you can feel differently if you want.
...

Sorry, let's put that into a format you can grasp: aLExIthYMiA Is CHaRAcTERized By an impaired ABILiTY TO BE awaRE OF, eXpliCITlY iDeNtifY, and DeScrIbE oNE's fEELings
https://imgur.com/a/Zg88r5W

https://imgur.com/a/LuAtv3e
yes you got it right, he ups his own posts
reddit user behaviour

[quote=ivan_][quote=Tynnyri][quote=Lotusberry] tHeSe qUoTeS ShOw fAiLuReS To gRaSp bAsIc lAnGuAgE AnD PrEvIoUs dEfInItIoNs.[/quote]

Failing to form syllogisms or keep track of previously agreed upon definitions can be challenging, That's why making mistakes is completely fine - you can feel differently if you want.
...

Sorry, let's put that into a format you can grasp: aLExIthYMiA Is CHaRAcTERized By an impaired ABILiTY TO BE awaRE OF, eXpliCITlY iDeNtifY, and DeScrIbE oNE's fEELings[/quote]
[url=https://imgur.com/a/Zg88r5W]https://imgur.com/a/Zg88r5W[/url][/quote]
https://imgur.com/a/LuAtv3e
yes you got it right, he ups his own posts
reddit user behaviour
115
#115
21 Frags +
TynnyriAnd then it hit me. The class limits in 6v6 are weirdly specific. There can be 2 Scouts, but not 2 Medics.

Think of it this way: Would it be healthy for the game if we could stack Medics? Of course not, more players would be forced into over-centralized, Medic-focused meta. Everyone should agree that stacking a class creates issues, mainly of over-centralization.

This is like going on a football forum and being confused as to why there is one ball

[quote=Tynnyri]And then it hit me. The class limits in 6v6 are weirdly specific. There can be 2 Scouts, but not 2 Medics.

Think of it this way: Would it be healthy for the game if we could stack Medics? Of course not, more players would be forced into over-centralized, Medic-focused meta. Everyone should agree that stacking a class creates issues, mainly of over-centralization.[/quote]

This is like going on a football forum and being confused as to why there is one ball
116
#116
-11 Frags +
pajarowhy are you still posting, we don't want you here

I came here to discuss class limits. I am sorry if that offends you. :(

[quote=pajaro]why are you still posting, we don't want you here[/quote]

I came here to discuss class limits. I am sorry if that offends you. :(
117
#117
-11 Frags +
PheaaThis is like going on a football forum and being confused as to why there is one ball

Weird analogy. Football does not have player role limitations, except for the goalkeeper. This is probably what you meant, as that's a better analogy.

Anyway, your original analogy sounds like an appeal to tradition. Football also has all kinds of rule changes, despite the tradition of the sport. These rules are also often discussed.

Also, I don't think I was confused on the reason any class limits exist. I think that was quite clear when I explained the Medic limit: It wouldn't be healthy for the meta. If that's wrong, you can always correct me.

[quote=Pheaa]
This is like going on a football forum and being confused as to why there is one ball[/quote]

Weird analogy. Football does not have player role limitations, except for the goalkeeper. This is probably what you meant, as that's a better analogy.

Anyway, your original analogy sounds like an appeal to tradition. Football also has all kinds of rule changes, despite the tradition of the sport. These rules are also often discussed.

Also, I don't think I was confused on the reason any class limits exist. I think that was quite clear when I explained the Medic limit: It wouldn't be healthy for the meta. If that's wrong, you can always correct me.
118
#118
9 Frags +
Tynnyripajarowhy are you still posting, we don't want you here
I came here to discuss class limits. I am sorry if that offends you. :(

You came here to talk about it, got told that you were wrong and instead of going "yea alright" you spent a week trying to argue back and forth with people that know about the topic than you. You're wrong. That's fine, just have some grace in it.

[quote=Tynnyri][quote=pajaro]why are you still posting, we don't want you here[/quote]

I came here to discuss class limits. I am sorry if that offends you. :([/quote]

You came here to talk about it, got told that you were wrong and instead of going "yea alright" you spent a week trying to argue back and forth with people that know about the topic than you. You're wrong. That's fine, just have some grace in it.
119
#119
-12 Frags +
bloodmachine You're wrong.bloodmachineyou spent a week trying to argue

In a discussion, it's regular to change one's mind and agree with others. In an argument, the goal is to change others' minds. I've been fine with people disagreeing with me.

bloodmachineyou spent a week trying to argue back and forth with people that know about the topic than you.

You should probably avoid "appeal to authority" in the future. If someone truly knows more about the topic, their knowledge should allow them to discuss it effectively without needing to appeal to their own authority.

[quote=bloodmachine] You're wrong.[/quote]

[quote=bloodmachine]you spent a week trying to argue [/quote]

In a discussion, it's regular to change one's mind and agree with others. In an argument, the goal is to change others' minds. I've been fine with people disagreeing with me.

[quote=bloodmachine]you spent a week trying to argue back and forth with people that know about the topic than you.[/quote]

You should probably avoid "appeal to authority" in the future. If someone truly knows more about the topic, their knowledge should allow them to discuss it effectively without needing to appeal to their own authority.
120
#120
22 Frags +
TynnyriPheaaThis is like going on a football forum and being confused as to why there is one ball
Weird analogy. Football does not have player role limitations, except for the goalkeeper. This is probably what you meant, as that's a better analogy.

Anyway, your original analogy sounds like an appeal to tradition. Football also has all kinds of rule changes, despite the tradition of the sport. These rules are also often discussed.

Also, I don't think I was confused on the reason any class limits exist. I think that was quite clear when I explained the Medic limit: It wouldn't be healthy for the meta. If that's wrong, you can always correct me.

The "ball" in tf2 is the uber differential, so having two medics would be like playing with two balls.

Your mum played with my two balls last night.

[quote=Tynnyri][quote=Pheaa]
This is like going on a football forum and being confused as to why there is one ball[/quote]

Weird analogy. Football does not have player role limitations, except for the goalkeeper. This is probably what you meant, as that's a better analogy.

Anyway, your original analogy sounds like an appeal to tradition. Football also has all kinds of rule changes, despite the tradition of the sport. These rules are also often discussed.

Also, I don't think I was confused on the reason any class limits exist. I think that was quite clear when I explained the Medic limit: It wouldn't be healthy for the meta. If that's wrong, you can always correct me.[/quote]

The "ball" in tf2 is the uber differential, so having two medics would be like playing with two balls.

Your mum played with my two balls last night.
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