thanks for responding!
I don't see what you see...
to me, the medic shot is the only one that exhibits a clear flick back to the point where the flick started. all other flicks are in one direction. can you give me a timestamp from milds video (full speed or slomo) which shows any other flicks (that hit or not) doing this?

i see there are some micro-adjustments after some shots with little jitters, but no large, straight line, fast (large jump between frames) flicks that also happen to return to the beginning of the flick

slowmos from ur own video. yea he moves his mouse a little more in the medic shot but the other shots demonstrate the same aiming habit, it's just a slightly larger flick. a flick where he knew he was dying in like 0.1 seconds and just went for a yolo shot btw (anyone would aim harder in that situation). I used to flick like this myself before i improved my mouse control and yea you don't always return exactly to where you started your aim, but sometimes you just do. that's human variance for you (not to mention he actually returns his aim to slightly lower than it was before the flick)

https://youtu.be/rf5Hxh4-W1M?t=156 (aim actually doesnt move in a straight line when he flicks up and left, but it does move in a straight smooth line down and right to where he started)
https://youtu.be/rf5Hxh4-W1M?t=165 (rubber banding motion, altho doesn't go exactly back to where he started)
https://youtu.be/rf5Hxh4-W1M?t=189 (rubber banding motion, goes in same direction as where he started and like 80% of the distance)

not saying that he isn't cheating, he very well might be and some of the clips in this thread are weird. none are conclusive though. I looked at the old videos too, where people were commenting on the weird flicks/180s/target switching, and I thought that all of those decisions seemed reasonable enough from the information he would have in game

I agree that none of these individual clips are conclusive enough to ban just based off of one or two of them, but the amount of sus flicks/clips that are surfacing, his ridiculously consistent logs, and other older evidence in this thread is pretty damning.

Hi. On my phone

He actually does return to the exact spot. (I can make a video tomorrow showing you) if you watch my yen3 video at 0.25x speed and go frame by frame, use the ticks as a guide:
The second frame of tick 55953 is the exact moment the flick starts (goes from down and right to up and right)
The flick happens
The moment the medigun appears (first frame of tick 55961) (his crosshair is at the nose of it) is where the flick ends
You can actually see a continuation of his down and rightward movement in the following frames (when the critical hit text appears) this is where I believe you think he ends his flick lower

Clip 1. Play at 0.25x speed. (Watch where his charge empties and the bolt disappears for the moment he shoots). The flick starts at the scouts gun, goes up towards his head. He shoots at the top right corner of the leftmost barrel, goes left for 2 frames, and then swipes right

Clip 2. Does return to where the shot started, but it's very clearly a triangle motion (up, left, then down) not a straight line

Clip 3. The flick leading to the right is a much shallower angle, and the flick after the shot is much steeper down. Also of note is that there is a distinct change in speed while his crosshair is closest to the head and as it continues down. This is a human motion of him slowing down

(Also what mild said, plus the literal frame perfect demo shots, imagine if those were a scout clips of someone flicking, coming to a perfect dead stop and shooting on the first frame)

any player who aims like yen, given this much attention to every game they play and every time they flick would have an abundance of clips like the ones we see with yen. People have stopped thinking and discussing about whether or not yen is cheating, and have tried only to prove to themselves and others that yen IS cheating

https://youtu.be/Z-wVXpnYsrg
a longer video this time, this time looking at the crosshair positions, open to feed/pushback on my analysis

isn't there a command you can use to show their aim direction?

This is an absolutely terrible argument that contributes very little to the conversation at hand. We are looking and asking for an explanation. Can you show me "any player" that can transition mid-flick to traveling in a straight line, stop and fire perfectly on the same frame with zero overshoot. (Multiple times in the same game, mind you) There are thousands of demo players with videos and public stvs demos. I've never seen this.

If you would like to contribute and actually try to defend yen, that's fine! Show an example of someone doing these things and that they're human. You have a practically infinite supply of demos and videos to pull examples from, it is my prediction that you will not find any that are this consistent.

ive never heard of toggling and there are moments where his aim seems human, he could be repeatedly getting one in a million flicks! until he's tracking people through walls and hitting shots while aiming straight up i shall remain unconvinced

huh

i think he's being sarcastic but fell flat

I feel like looking at demos at a speed where every tick lasts nearly a second can throw off your perception. TF2 doesn't actually record POV demos at that high of fidelity, the aim is just interpolated from the position it was on the previous tick. it seems pretty possible for this to trick you into finding "impossible, cheating" aim from something that in actuality could be explained through natural causes.

below is my artist's depiction of where his crosshair actually is at the time of each tick. the second diagram is how it looks on the POV demo due to interpolation and you can see the hard stop to the flick and downward motion. the third diagram is how it could have actually been aimed, and you can see overflicks and acceleration begin in the opposite direction at the end of each direction of the flick. obviously I can't know if this was the case, but you can't know that it wasn't either, since the data just isn't there.

https://i.imgur.com/LKt1Kcn.jpeg

I would also like to say that his aim lingers around the medic's head for around 2 ticks and doesn't instantly start snapping back to where it started; this is consistent with aim deceleration and just having decent click timing. as for the aim returning to where it started; this just happens for a lot of people who aim like this, sometimes. finding a couple clips of this isn't exactly evidence, you need a larger sample size.

I mean I can't show all the evidence the person that is working with me has like 3x more clips then what is posted currently. All we can do is just wait for the AC team.

finally someone with some sense

When you play back demos at an extremely low speed, you will just see interpolated mouse movement (as trippa stated previously), and you won't see the actual recorded angles in the demo file itself. Literally 99.99% of what you see is interpolated mouse movement and not the actual data, so this type of evidence is inconclusive.

If you want to see the actual recorded angles, you have to go through a POV demo tick-by-tick while paused.

EDIT: One more thing, you can just check the angles within cl_showpos 1 while paused. Much better method than drawing lines on a video.

I do agree with what's been said about all this slow playback stuff. I don't have my pc for the foreseeable future, so can't really contribute much evidence wise but I would like to see discussion on more than just the one sniper clip:

-Is there a way to determine if the flicks are perfectly straight?
-What is the likelihood of stopping and shooting on the same frame? (Especially that snakewater last airshot)
-How about the brief pauses in the flicks where his crosshair stops moving and then continues to flick in the same direction but in a straighter line and faster speed? (Snakewater second flicking to the right, snakewater mid on the first soldier flicking to the right)

you have a bias here yourself regardless, since your team rang him in a playoff match as a default ringer. him getting banned from rgl would have that match win overturned presumably which I’m Sure You Wouldn’t Want :D

anyway you have an awful track record with the people you hang around with and defend, #FreeNursey ring any bells for you?
https://logs.tf/3364785
https://logs.tf/3364795

hello, thank you so much for the insight. I went through and looked at every angle value cl_showpos 1 in accordance to trippa's image (https://i.imgur.com/LKt1Kcn.jpeg)
(559)53: -3.87 -39.47
54: -3.97 -39.77
55: -4.46 -41.02
56: -4.86 -41.47
57: -5.15 -42.05 (this is when I heard the sniper shot)
58: -5.02 -41.64 (crosshair is now moving back down to the left)
59: -4.51 -40.40
60: -4.23 -39.34
61: -3.37 -38.37
62: -3.03 -38.80
63: -2.93 -38.99
I do want to mention that using this method (pausing and going tick-by-tick) the ang values were not consistent every time I went through (by around +-0.2). The demoui also sometimes skips 2 ticks instead of 1 when using the goto button. This usually happened when I tried to go from 55->56, and it ended up going straight to 57. The data above is what happened when I was able to actually land directly on 56, then progressed to 57 and 58 by 1 tick.

I went through the ticks 56-59 multiple times, and each time the sniper shot sound was played on 57. Through multiple passes, the crosshair would stop moving rightward on either 57 or 58. However, what was consistent was that yen's crosshair always changed direction in 1 tick. Either 57-58, or 58-59. I never saw yen's crosshair stay still between 57-58.

If someone here knows a lot about tf2 demos, then I would very much like your insight. I would like to try this analysis again with any other demos that have surfaced.

Pretty sure if u just press this button on the demoui you'll go by 1-tick exact

https://i.imgur.com/noXC8Uz.png

you must have a lot of knowledge on the game considering you got mentored by nursey!

hi, thanks for all the help.

unfortunately the next tick button on the demoui still has the same problem of skipping some ticks. however using these commands:
developer 1
demo_debug 1
con_filter_enable 1
con_filter_text "dem_consolecmd"
it appears yen fired on 55956. this means the crosshair actually over flicked. assuming this to be true, the sniper clip is now incredibly inconclusive. thanks for helping me get to the bottom of this one. I am probably going to go over some of the other pov demos with less confirmation bias this time.

https://rgl.gg/Public/PlayerProfile?p=76561198037518646
HE CANT PLAY GRANDS

RIP BOZO
took long enough bruh

edit: im retarded I thought he got banned for cheating not just demos LMFAO

to be fair I think it might actually be reasonable, unlike any other situation in history, to have missed a demo submission. Yen has had his demos requested like a billion times so eventually it was bound to happen or have one missing. Combined with all the other controversies it certainly seems a lot more suspicious, and personally, I think that the fact that pretty much every clip related to him in this thread being from basically one singular match that he played is the most suspicious part of the whole situation.

The demo tick argument is reasonable, but I think we're also hyperfocusing on this one game that he played and ignoring a lot of the other wild shit that we've seen back from when the thread first dropped.

https://rgl.gg/Public/PlayerProfile?p=76561198037518646
well gg

noob down

2 for 2 good job team

looks like my $2 AC fee went to good use. ggs only

https://imgur.com/a/8WaEjSB

hip hip