im not going to do that

team colours the side houses

ok
Download: koth_bagel_rc9

Changelog:
-Detail changes to Houses and Jump Pads

huge thx for this change, it would make differentiating the houses easier on a cast :)

Download: koth_bagel_rc9a

Changelog:
-fixed a major clipping oversight at mid

yippie
edit: bad news boss https://imgur.com/a/9R6eJVF

fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

edit: is that on rc9 or rc9a? clipping there was indeed fucked on rc9

Found the issue, there was a protruding edge still.
Download: koth_bagel_rc9b

Changelog:
-Fixed a protruding edge at mid

It's the 8th anniversary of Bagel's original release, check out this visual update I've been working on for its birthday!
Download: koth_bagel_rc10

https://i.imgur.com/G3MbtuU.png

More screenshots:

Changelog:
-Redetailed out-of-bounds and 3D skybox
-Various detailing changes
-Various optimisations (Filesize is smaller now!)
-Various clipping fixes
-Various other fixes

And don't forget to upvote it on the workshop so that it might go official one day...

what if there was a window pane on the nipple? (see attached image for visual representation) I think personally it would be beneficial for the pocket scout and the combo in general. just a thought, just an idea. it would make demo gameplay more interesting, and allows for combo scout to avoid random deaths from demo spam.

https://i.imgur.com/4PR5yLd.png

No.

Yes.

because botmode wont clarify i will give my thoughts on the window idea

the window won't save combo scouts from eating spam. it will honestly make it worse for scouts because any lane aggression around the left or right of the nipple would be telegraphed by the window = makes it incredibly easy for a demo to trap himself off, entirely avoid the scout aggression, and deal the damage anyways

a scout being able to fight around the nipple without being spotted is kind of essential to make point fights actually winnable. if a demo could perfectly target a scout wherever he goes on the point by seeing him through the window, it would (imo) just turn bagel into another clearcut where edging the point as a combo scout is nigh impossible. fights would entirely rely on trades and winning the post OR actually winning house fights instead of just brawling in the houses to draw eyes / get damage

i think the house / point play on bagel is honestly perfect and the only issue with the map, as it stands, is how powerful the forward hold is

yeah being able to see on demo would literally make walking past the point impossible and it's already very difficult (good luck doing anything with an uber). it would also make the carpets even stronger because the demo would be able to det on them confidently. It would inherently make demoman less interesting because decision making becomes more obvious and straightforward.

scout will always sometimes randomly die to demoman, sticky pipe and the rare sticky sync can literally instantly kill you, same as getting shot at by two people at the same time. That's not a map thing that's just tf2.

+1 forward hold is too strong

I think the nipple just needs to be 25% thinner, as this will give players the chance to avoid damage on the sides of the point from random splash. Or just widen the point by making the houses a little smaller. Either/or.

P.S. Also just make the forward door entrances (or at least the left one) taller that fixed it for Granary.

As players have started figuring out how to forward hold properly, forward busts have not gotten much stronger to compensate. There's limited options for it so there's not much to improve upon at this point.
I tried to visualize some stuff and write down some thoughts

https://i.imgur.com/4EnSDFO.png

this door is very easy to trap. Left and right stickies cover the entire door when det. upper stickies cover the entire door when det.
I recommend making the door higher (red). right lip trap (cyan) can also be made weaker by moving it closer with the light switch's wall. This would mostly make it easier to spot. If combined (purple) this might allow soldiers to jump from the medium hp inside, spot the cyan trap if needed and then hug the wall to jump through more safely

https://i.imgur.com/dxcRYgW.png

aggro traps can be placed at the pseudo-choke of the australium boxes. I personally don't see a use for the cyan square box other than that stickytrap. Perhaps removing it makes it easier to clear this area
The green box is currently partially blocking spam angles. You could consider changing it to a transparent fence so traps are harder to place there, but the spam angle remains blocked.
The red aggro trap isn't as common, but moving the ceiling there can still help players take space

https://i.imgur.com/NUtmahI.png

Busting this side requires clearing a bunch of traps. Moving the door around messes with a lot of sightlines so I tried to avoid this as feedback. Best method here is removing some props, or changing them.

Trap 1: is fine
Trap 2: I would recommend changing this to a small box (like the one near it) so the explosion doesn't reach as far, or removing the prop altogether (other than that trap it sees little use)
Trap 3 and 4: If you want to mess around with the door's size I'd only try left (cyan) and up. Trap 3 is easy to clear by itself as a scout can stand at the medium hp at the slope and take little spam. So I'd change the height first and see afterwards if more is needed
Trap 5 and 6: Combining this because 6 is easy to clear as scout, but is needed before you can clear 5. And then if you want to clear 5 you are taking all the spam. So this loses a lot of time. The bandaid fix is removing the prop, but you could also move the wall + prop further out to make a little nook where you can avoid some spam (similar to standing at the medium hp to clear trap 3)
Trap 7: Not that much of an issue. Just yet another thing to add to the list of traps you need to keep in mind. Though easy to spot usually. Overall fine, but can consider moving or removing the grass if things remain cramped

edit: just wanted to visualize what I mean with creating a nook for trap 5 and 6