hooray

https://rgl.gg/Public/LeagueTable?s=153&g=936&r=40 welp these rankings are fucked, I wonder which team should be disqualified... also mind you yen was also rang in some teams for playoffs so look out for that too :D

Noob Down. (again)

https://imgur.com/a/HIb5WbT

https://tenor.com/view/ninja-l-dance-ninja-dance-ninja-fortnite-fortnite-l-dance-gif-14769627

2 years of being lied to by him. He "swears on his dead grandmother's grave" he wasnt cheating. Irredeemable scumbag. RGL can go ahead and overturn my seasons with him too. They dont count anymore.

Honestly it was so obvious idk why there were people defending him

This just shows that players with this many fucking "weird" clips, 99% of the time, are just cheaters; I am not sure why it took so long for people to understand why that's not normal for any player. Especially considering the analysis I gave when this post first came out. It also shows that people who only say, "Oh, but I have known him for a long time," have no value because they very well could have been deceived themselves, and at the same time, I'm being told by his friends that he is cheating; it's like an eye witness as evidence. Like someone who said he was an MGE lord, then MGE players have ZERO idea of who he is.

This especially goes for the people who were 100% sure he wasn't cheating, were ex-cheaters, and were also just toxic to other people who dared suspect a player could've been cheating because god forbid people want to make sure they are not being cheated out of their money. It comes from this new cancer culture in which people view themselves as "supergenius" edge lords when in reality, they're just being dickheads with zero basis for their claims.

People are stuck in the mind of not believing something because they do not want to, instead of not believing because it's not true, so instead of contributing to the conversation by looking at a person(s) gameplay and making a conclusion, they just get defensive as if they are the ones being accused, and call everyone morons. If more people stop with that mentality, the amount of cheaters that get to cheat people out of their money and cheat their teammates out of wins gets cut to near zero.

guys he just has high sens that why he goes from aiming like a spaz on 1.2/360 to having perfect gm voltaic tracking guys hes just good you guys are just mad hes good guys

Sweet taste of vindication

Hello

We've been through this rigmarole enough times, and yet the script seems to be the same each time. Here are some helpful tips to remember for when cheaters emerge

1. Please note your bias. Friends/ Teammates of the accused person: you are inherently biased. Even though you have "played with" "been friends with" whoever, it doesn't mean much for if they decided to cheat or not. I highly doubt that you have gone through the effort to vet your friends by watching their demos, so rather than spew nothing burgers about how they "would never cheat", contribute to the conversation/ research/ explanation if you wish to defend them.

2. I had a fairly significant amount of people reach out to me as some sort of lead investigator. I literally just opened the stv and screen recorded. I provided you all the same links to do the same, and I encourage multiple people to do so in the future.

3. Use RGL Cheat report. It's silly to have this here because from my perspective, the AC team had requested all of his demos and this thread had been in the public eye for quite a while, so I presumed nothing would come of it. I went through the motions of submitting 2 demos and like 5 ticks this past weekend, and he was banned today.

Cheaters are going to exist, and they will only get better at hiding it. We should be more efficient in catching them. Shoutout kyle

does this mean playoffs will get overturned or something like that? He rang for soupcan team so idk what could be a final verdict if the admins decide to go that route

It is really funny to me that the one season that ppl didn't threaten a boycott, which again started because people didn't want playoffs to be messed up cause of a cheater,...had playoffs being messed up because of a cheater. Can't make this shit up lmao (sucks for everybody involved though)

its cus no one wanted to get banned

https://i.imgur.com/LviDhST.png

https://i.imgur.com/Is47JP7.png

It's a tricky situation when there isn't a determination made quickly, as going backwards to change the matchups in the playoffs after they're over is full of big problems.

For an example, my team had yen ring against us in UBR1, and we lost that series 2-1. If we had won, we would have played the actual yen team in the second round. But when they retroactively FFL the games yen played in, we get to win our UBR1 game now, but we don't get to play UBR2 (which I guess we would have got a FFW for also)-- instead, the fake retroactive playoffs just has us go to the lower bracket immediately anyway. We ended up losing in the lower bracket semis, which we physically couldn't have played in if we got FFW's for UBR1 and UBR2 (for playing yen) (since then we make it to UBF and a loss puts you insta into LBF).

Ultimately, I don't think what they do here is wrong or anything, but it DOES ruin the playoffs for everyone involved. The yen team made it to grands, so they screwed over several teams by taking wins off of them, not to mention even more teams cuz yen rang for other teams as well.

But complaining about problems isn't very constructive without solutions, so here's what I proposed in the last post-season survey:

1-- If you're really suspicious of a player cheating, submit reports that have demos, ticks, moments that are sus, etc. Magic already pointed that out before-- this helps the AC a lot.

2-- However, I think what players want, in terms of not having seasons be completely ruined by a cheater, is faster action from the AC. So, my suggestion is: If reports come in that do have stv demos, and specific things to look at, then the AC can take an intermediate step between conviction:

--> If the AC deem that a player passes a certain threshold for POSSIBLY cheating (this is ill-defined, but let's say the AC think there's a decently high chance the player is cheating, based off the initial evidence from reports and whatever else the AC can do QUICKLY), then that player should be placed on a temporary suspension until the AC makes a final decision. That way, that player doesn't play, and for the majority of teams still competing, we avoid the issue of a cheater having to be retroactively banned and matches getting completely ruined.

Is there a chance that we suspend a player and they're later found to be clean? Absolutely, although as long as the threshold is set well, this should be a minority of cases. But even so, if this one player is suspended and misses out, say, on a playoff run, I'd argue that this outcome only really affects that player's team, and even then they only need to get one sub/ringer, and the team is still allowed to play without the suspended player. If that guy is clean and they lose playoffs because of it, then that's unfortunate, but if the MAJORITY of the time, we give MANY teams a cheater-free playoff experience, that's just a net positive overall and more players benefit.

tldr:
- banning cheaters retroactively kinda sucks because many teams take L's in playoffs that cant be accounted for effectively (plus we all just wanna play playoffs, not get a free W months later cuz cheater got banned)

- to avoid this problem, I suggest giving the AC the power to suspend highly suspicious cheater candidates temporarily while investigations are taking place, so that they don't ruin playoffs (regular szn doesnt matter so much since overturning those games doesn't actually cause problems in the same way as playoffs)

- this suspension would allow the player's team to continue competing, but avoid the need to retroactively change game outcomes. If the threshold is set well, the majority of suspended players will be cheaters.

- In the event that a player is suspended and found clean later, it would be unfortunate for the team they're on, but ultimately forcing ONE team to replace ONE player temporarily in the MINORITY of cases is a small price to pay for effectively nuking the cheater playoff runs completely, which will benefit literally EVERY player on all other teams in playoffs.

#samphaesque

came back to this thread just to call you a retard

fried him ngl

https://prnt.sc/6LW4mclG6Yp8

?

ban ppl who knowingly play with cheaters...

also ban me when scouty gets banned for being scouty

the problem with this is the same problem of "intention" in the court of law. how do you prove someone KNEW that someone was cheating? unless you literally have video evidence of them saying "my name is X and i know for a fact that Y is cheating but i will continue to play with them", which, even then, could just be called off as being sarcastic or whatever.

i do agree that people playing with cheaters should be punished, but i think just outright wiping the entire team's record and revoking all pending medal/payment/etc is punishment enough, AGAIN, unless you somehow can prove without a doubt that these people are playing together knowing the other one is cheating. The easiest way to get suspicious of a player is if you're fighting against them, there could have been cheaters on my teams in the past that I never knew about because I never bothered to sit there for hours on end analyzing their demos tick by tick... but if you're fighting against someone that you're pretty certain is cheating, you're way more likely to just start analyzing the fuck out of everything they do, sending demos to the anticheat team with ticks showing when they cheated, what types of cheats you suspect them of using, extraneous evidence like something they may have said on discord regarding cheating, or them definitively cheating in another game, etc....

imo, if you get caught cheating and are banned for it (like, there is proof BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that you are cheating, IE aimbotting, wallhacking, NOSPREAD and other really easy to detect cheats, or if a player is just straight up spinbotting in playoffs or something... etc etc you get the point) you should just be permanently banned from rgl. rgl should go as far as to tell other leagues about the bans and convince them to ban these players too. We can talk about the AC team and how rgl doesn't have enough funding and all of these people are basically volunteering w/e all we want, but i think it is beyond evident at this point that there are just not enough people being banned despite cheating, and most of the people that seem to get banned need to be witch hunted to death before anything even happens to them -- entire divisions boycott because of how bad some of the cheating becomes. To that end, if you are cheating in tf2 so egregiously that actions are actually taken against you to prevent you from cheating any further, you should never be allowed to play the game competitively again. I don't care if player numbers are down or if doing this is too controversial or whatever... cheaters are fucking foul and they shouldn't be allowed in any game, anywhere. It's so, SO weird to me that people can get BANNED FOR CHEATING and be back playing the game in a few years. YOU CHEATED!!!!! you have no moral compass anymore, you are not a good person. who the fuck is going to trust you? don't worry coach i may have crippled my opponents and shot their knees out before our big football game, but that was like a year or two ago so that doesn't really apply anymore and i definitely won't do it again! Trust me! fuck you

sorry if this is rambly i'm drunk

Agree with the sentiment that cheaters should be permanently banned. There is no monetary incentive to cheat in tf2; it's a community/league sustained by passion and interest in the game, so if you cheat, you obviously don't give a fuck about anyone other than yourself, and as such I don't think there should be any reason not to just permanently excise you.

idk, if u cheat when ur 14 i dont think that should mean u cant change as a person ngl

definitely a case by case basis thing, if ur cheating and ur an adult i dont think u need a second chance

The age argument definitely has some merit, everyone makes stupid mistakes when they're young. I can definitely see it being a case by case thing.

submitting a fake ID to rgl that says im 15 so my cheating ban is only 2 years instead of 4

nah he uses mouse accel clearly... that can't be cheats

I was wrong.

I'm personally apologizing for all the now FALSE claims/possibilities/statements defending Yen I made previously.

Still, I'd like to reserve my opinion that the original video proof could've been better for the thread's creation. At least in the eventual pointlessness of defending him, I hope Fuzze and I gave the thread a lot of attention.

Respect to this man do not down vote him he admit his failure in the Great Debate of Cheaters

ideally it's permanent but appealable after a certain amount of time.
The point of getting unbanned for cheating should be that the admins have evaluated your behavior and concluded that you have changed as a person. it shouldn't just be assumed that you are any better of a person than you were 2 years ago.

The fact it's not already like this is honestly baffling. The amount of repeat offenders we'd have if cheaters were forced to write an appeal instead of just biding their time to play again would be close to zero.

Idk if cheating bans should be permanent or not but imo the people who get banned for cheating and then vehemently deny having ever cheated are definitely the least deserving of an unban because its very likely that they will still continue to cheat while they are banned or when they come back.

yeah, something like that makes sense. can be hard to judge how a person has changed though, especially if they can't participate in the game (basically) in the meantime. but better than nothing for sure

I wish cheaters got banned faster because OBVIOUSLY that reduces the amount of people who get their seasons ruined, I know RGL is perpetually short staffed especially in anti cheat but there are some policies that are just questionable at best (regarding the witch hunt stuff) But anyways good riddance and I hope this little bitch stays banned forever